ArchiCAD-Talk - ArchiCAD+

ArchiCAD 17 announced

David_Maudlin@nospamplease.com — Fri, 17 May 2013 12:06:26 GMT

Author:David Maudlin
Posted: Fri May 17, 2013 1:06 pm (GMT+1)

rocorona wrote:

Near the end of the video "027 - Coordinate dimension of libraries" the object is placed with gravity on a Morph. But in the previous images I don't see that option in the Gravity menu. Any idea?

I think they are using the Surface Snap feature to place the object on the Morph.

David
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ArchiCAD 17 announced

rocorona@nospamplease.com — Fri, 17 May 2013 09:40:34 GMT

Author:rocorona
Posted: Fri May 17, 2013 10:40 am (GMT+1)

Near the end of the video "027 - Coordinate dimension of libraries" the object is placed with gravity on a Morph. But in the previous images I don't see that option in the Gravity menu. Any idea?
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ArchiCAD 17 announced

mthd@nospamplease.com — Fri, 17 May 2013 06:08:50 GMT

Author:mthd
Posted: Fri May 17, 2013 7:08 am (GMT+1)

Now AC17 has BIMx on board what happens to those who have purchased VBE and BIMx licences in the past before AC17? Do they get a refund or is another product coming out like BIMx Pro or something like that with extra functionality?
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ArchiCAD 17 announced

Steve_Jepson@nospamplease.com — Wed, 15 May 2013 21:22:32 GMT

Author:Steve Jepson
Posted: Wed May 15, 2013 10:22 pm (GMT+1)

laszlonagy wrote:

Well, let's then just wait for the program to come out so others can try it too. Because this new way is something that should make this whole area less ambiguous so you always know what is inside, outside. It is now basically not dependent on the Reference Line but what you define in the Settings and Composites Dialog. Surfaces (formerly called Materials) are now assigned to the Outside or Inside of a Wall, not to its Reference Line side or side opposite to it.
I personally believe it is more logical now and easier to work with than the old way where you had to watch where your Reference Line is and it the body of the Wall is on its left or right etc.
But we will see what everyone is saying when the version comes out.

That's fair. You are speaking about 17 Reference Lines and Inside/Outside relative to how you and the developers of the new features used or did not use the Reference Line in 16.

If you were using the reference line as I do in 16 your opinion might be different.
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ArchiCAD 17 announced

laszlonagy@nospamplease.com — Wed, 15 May 2013 19:27:03 GMT

Author:laszlonagy
Posted: Wed May 15, 2013 8:27 pm (GMT+1)

Well, let's then just wait for the program to come out so others can try it too. Because this new way is something that should make this whole area less ambiguous so you always know what is inside, outside. It is now basically not dependent on the Reference Line but what you define in the Settings and Composites Dialog. Surfaces (formerly called Materials) are now assigned to the Outside or Inside of a Wall, not to its Reference Line side or side opposite to it.
I personally believe it is more logical now and easier to work with than the old way where you had to watch where your Reference Line is and it the body of the Wall is on its left or right etc.
But we will see what everyone is saying when the version comes out.
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ArchiCAD 17 announced

Steve_Jepson@nospamplease.com — Wed, 15 May 2013 18:22:25 GMT

Author:Steve Jepson
Posted: Wed May 15, 2013 7:22 pm (GMT+1)

laszlonagy wrote:

Steve Jepson wrote:

Karl Ottenstein wrote:

OT since two people have asked why we have reference lines: Reference lines are critical; do take the time to understand how they are used and can be used.

The reference line for a wall, for example, "anchors" a space-critical surface of the wall (your choice of what you deem space critical). Frequently, the reference line might be the exterior structural face of a composite or profiled wall. By placing the wall with the reference line there, you can change the entire assembly of the wall and still have the structural, bearing volume of the new structure aligned at that position, all in one step by selecting a new wall type. The exterior skins may grow or shrink. The core(s) may grow or shrink, and the interior finish skins can grow or shrink, but the entire structure will align as intended - e.g., outside face of bearing core to outside face of bearing core below / outside edge of slab below, etc.

Yes. 17. The overhauled method and arbitrary designation of what is Inside/Outside is something that not only works a little different in 17 but also may preclude the way some ( perhaps only me ) were using the Reference Line before. This is not the best thread to get into the details about that. Which is why I was just offering a word of caution.
Having more Lines of Reference ( I would call them ) and tools to manage them, may compromise the ability of the "Reference Line" to proved a single and consistent frame of reference for both spacial and material orientation. The solution I was hoping for would have taken into account the main reason we need a single and always consistent frame of reference in the first place. Openings. It's the language and terms that are being used that needed the over haul. Not the Reference Line.

If you are using terms relative to the Reveal and/or the Reference Line the need for ambiguous terms like Inside/Outside are irrelevant.

This does not mean there would be no need for more "Lines for Reference" in Composites.
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ArchiCAD 17 announced

Bricklyne_Clarence@nospamplease.com — Wed, 15 May 2013 03:05:38 GMT

Author:Bricklyne Clarence
Posted: Wed May 15, 2013 4:05 am (GMT+1)

Thomas Holm wrote:

Bricklyne,

as I seem to be finally joining the "grumpy old men" section of this forum, (see my other post), I'd like to balance it on the positive side by pointing out (for the public) a somewhat easier solution to your problem, that is the workaround of overlaying a saved 3D document view/horizontal 3D cut/ with the regular floor plan on a layout.

Of course it doesn't solve every presentation problem, and I guess you're already familiar with it, but I don't think every novice that reads this forum knows.

With the right settings, this way gets you an invisible and auto-updated layout patch with correct cuts and no need for repeated manual interference like the technique you describe. Still a workaround though.

Edited: This overlay-views-on-layout technique could of course also be used to solve the issue that eduardo roló n names. (together with setting 3D door opening angle to the same as in 2D)

Best regards, Thomas

Bricklyne Clarence wrote:

...I can't tell you how many times (even in the last few weeks) I've had to resort to the old work-around of saving a .jpg image file of the top view in Axonometric on the 3D window and then saving that image as a worksheet and then scaling it to the right size by referencing the floor plan through virtual reference and then finally using virtual reference again on the floor plan with that image to trace the correct SEO cut of a cut element just to have it display correctly on plan.
.

Thanks for the tip.
Someone else (Roberto Corona) also offered a different solution, but I think yours is probably better in the sense of auto-updating with model changes.

And I'm with you in feeling that ArchiCAD is a good enough program (even with its still lagging shortcomings) that Graphisoft really don't need to, and shouldn't be "juicing" their demo videos with seemingly misleading information about improvements in the upcoming versions.

Still, I don't want to give the impression that I'm completely disappointed with this version.
If anything (SEO display on plan issue aside), I quite like the improvements I've seen them make in these two most recent versions and find it encouraging with regards to the general direction they seem to be taking the program.

I just hope they don't forget the meat and potato issues that are still lagging and which continue to plague users as have been pointed out by other people (Stairs, SEO's, GDL Visual authoring and modification interface, interface overhaul) and the improvements they've been making in these recent versions leads me to believe that they have most of the ingredients in place to give us a really great upgrade version in the near future.

ArchiCAD 17 announced

outpostarc@nospamplease.com — Tue, 14 May 2013 23:16:23 GMT

Author:outpostarc
Posted: Wed May 15, 2013 12:16 am (GMT+1)

I like the updated Graphisoft website. Would love to see an update to the Ui of ArchiCad.
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ArchiCAD 17 announced

Thomas_Holm@nospamplease.com — Tue, 14 May 2013 15:28:55 GMT

Author:Thomas Holm
Posted: Tue May 14, 2013 4:28 pm (GMT+1)

laszlonagy wrote:

They are working on it.

Fine! Thanks!
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ArchiCAD 17 announced

Thomas_Holm@nospamplease.com — Tue, 14 May 2013 14:52:47 GMT

Author:Thomas Holm
Posted: Tue May 14, 2013 3:52 pm (GMT+1)

Bricklyne,

as I seem to be finally joining the "grumpy old men" section of this forum, (see my other post), I'd like to balance it on the positive side by pointing out (for the public) a somewhat easier solution to your problem, that is the workaround of overlaying a saved 3D document view/horizontal 3D cut/ with the regular floor plan on a layout.

Of course it doesn't solve every presentation problem, and I guess you're already familiar with it, but I don't think every novice that reads this forum knows.

With the right settings, this way gets you an invisible and auto-updated layout patch with correct cuts and no need for repeated manual interference like the technique you describe. Still a workaround though.

Edited: This overlay-views-on-layout technique could of course also be used to solve the issue that eduardo roló n names. (together with setting 3D door opening angle to the same as in 2D)

Best regards, Thomas

Bricklyne Clarence wrote:

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ArchiCAD 17 announced

laszlonagy@nospamplease.com — Tue, 14 May 2013 14:39:10 GMT

Author:laszlonagy
Posted: Tue May 14, 2013 3:39 pm (GMT+1)

Thomas Holm wrote:

Thanks, Laszlo, for the clarification.

I really think that the naming and narration in that video should be corrected too.

They are working on it.
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ArchiCAD 17 announced

Thomas_Holm@nospamplease.com — Tue, 14 May 2013 14:31:25 GMT

Author:Thomas Holm
Posted: Tue May 14, 2013 3:31 pm (GMT+1)

Thanks, Lazlo, for the clarification.

I really think that the naming and narration in that video should be corrected too. If your statement is correct, the narration is misleading in a way that will create disappointment and perhaps anger too.

The term "model-based elements" can hardly be limited to just roofs, shells and morphs, without additional information.

In addition to that, the window at the left in the first half of the video, where correct contours are shown, seems to be a regular floor plan view, and not a 3D document view. Nothing shows that this applies only to certain elements.

The wording in narration, headlines and file-naming means that this video brags about a new feature which simply isn't there. I can get floor plan views with correct cuts for roofs, morphs and shells in AC16 today. What I wish for is to get this for the other model elements too.

The new thing in 17 that's in fact shown is just that it's easier to create 3Dcut floor plans than in previous versions. I like that, for a feature that's been essentially the same since Archicad 4 (!), but I see no reason to stretch the truth this way. Archicad is too good to let the marketing people throw dirt at it by lying. I have a feeling I'm not alone thinking like this, so I hope you'll convey this to the right people!

laszlonagy wrote:

Thomas Holm wrote:

In the demo video
Archicad 17 New Features: 014 - Model-based element display and solid element operations
http://www.youtube.com/embed/KbvnDzzoaqM?hd=1&autoplay=1

the narrator says "the correct 3D contours of model-based elements are displayed on the floor plan" (my emphasis)
and
"not only 3D elements, but also Solid Element Operations, are displayed correctly on the floor plan"

I can't find any statement limiting this to Morphs only (as in AC16) or such.

Seems to me this is what we've been asking for. Even if I have to use the "horizontal 3D document" method, as long as it's the one-click method described, and doesn't limit me in any other way, it should work and eliminate the need for Bricklyne's workaround.

Please correct me if I'm wrong!

This clip can be a bit misleading because of the reason you mentioned. So I have indicated this to the guys at Graphisoft.
So the situation is:
Results of SEOs do not show in Floor Plan Viewpoint for most elements. The only elements it does show is Roofs, Shells and Morhps.
However, it is now possible to create 3D Documents based on the Floor Plan. So you don't need to go to the 3D Window, create a Top View and generate a 3D Document from that; you can do it from the Floor Plan. In this case, since the 3D Document is generated from 3D, the SEOs WILL show.
So indeed, Thomas, this could be a solution to many situations.
The only qualifier is that since it is a 3D Document, its settings will govern the display. So some options that you have in Floor Plan, you will not have in this case. For example, Floor Plan Display Options for elements, like Projected with Overhead, will not be available in this case.

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ArchiCAD 17 announced

laszlonagy@nospamplease.com — Tue, 14 May 2013 12:55:07 GMT

Author:laszlonagy
Posted: Tue May 14, 2013 1:55 pm (GMT+1)

Steve Jepson wrote:

Karl Ottenstein wrote:

Steve, are you talking about ArchiCAD 17 here? Or previous versions.
The reason I am asking is that the whole Reference Line, plus Left/Right/Center method of Wall placement is overhauled in ArchiCAD 17. So you always know what is the Outside and Inside of the structure and it does not change when modifying the Reference Line Location.
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ArchiCAD 17 announced

laszlonagy@nospamplease.com — Tue, 14 May 2013 12:47:55 GMT

Author:laszlonagy
Posted: Tue May 14, 2013 1:47 pm (GMT+1)

Thomas Holm wrote:

ArchiCAD 17 announced

mzex@nospamplease.com — Tue, 14 May 2013 07:15:20 GMT

Author:mzex
Posted: Tue May 14, 2013 8:15 am (GMT+1)

dasneboja wrote:

Am I the only one appreciate new morph mass modeling capability??
This is something that Revit has long time ago...
I was constantly finding better way to start project in ArchiCAD
and finally we have a tool for it!

This new morph capabilities seems nice, but I am not sure if you can use it to model a building out of it as in Revit, where you can directly apply walls, curtain walls, slabs etc to mass you model with that tool.

Anyway really great and useful upgrade. Now connection between walls and slabs will be no longer a problem. I really like association to story height. 3D cutting planes will be useful especially for presentations. Zone tool finally improved to the way it should be. Some library parts are really great, for example wall closure types.

Pity we don't have new stair tool, and pity we don't have option to modify wall to have changeable height. Big minus if we didn't get copy and multiply in sections.
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ArchiCAD 17 announced

Steve_Jepson@nospamplease.com — Mon, 13 May 2013 19:07:00 GMT

Author:Steve Jepson
Posted: Mon May 13, 2013 8:07 pm (GMT+1)

Karl Ottenstein wrote:

Also beware when you are making new composites. There is nothing to indicate which side of your composite the reference line will be on. The reference line of the composite will be at the top of the window where you assemble the materials. Knowing this may save you the trouble of having to reassemble your composites to be consistent with what has been arbitrarily designated as inside or outside in some other place.
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ArchiCAD 17 announced

Steve_Jepson@nospamplease.com — Mon, 13 May 2013 18:30:54 GMT

Author:Steve Jepson
Posted: Mon May 13, 2013 7:30 pm (GMT+1)

Matthew Lohden wrote:

Yay!

ArchiCAD 17. The Wishlist Edition!

I can assure you, now there will be even more wishes to wish for
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ArchiCAD 17 announced

ejrolon@nospamplease.com — Mon, 13 May 2013 17:58:04 GMT

Author:ejrolon
Posted: Mon May 13, 2013 6:58 pm (GMT+1)

3D Floor Plan
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ArchiCAD 17 announced

ejrolon@nospamplease.com — Mon, 13 May 2013 17:56:50 GMT

Author:ejrolon
Posted: Mon May 13, 2013 6:56 pm (GMT+1)

These are the limits on SEO representation on floor plan I have found.

1. The Operator has to be a Morph.
2. It has to be a 3D floor plan document for it to work.
3. All doors will be drawn as projected from the 3D which means that they are closed and have no line indicating opening direction.
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ArchiCAD 17 announced

Thomas_Holm@nospamplease.com — Mon, 13 May 2013 16:02:56 GMT

Author:Thomas Holm
Posted: Mon May 13, 2013 5:02 pm (GMT+1)

In the demo video
Archicad 17 New Features: 014 - Model-based element display and solid element operations
http://www.youtube.com/embed/KbvnDzzoaqM?hd=1&autoplay=1

the narrator says "the correct 3D contours of model-based elements are displayed on the floor plan" (my emphasis)
and
"not only 3D elements, but also Solid Element Operations, are displayed correctly on the floor plan"

I can't find any statement limiting this to Morphs only (as in AC16) or such.

Seems to me this is what we've been asking for. Even if I have to use the "horizontal 3D document" method, as long as it's the one-click method described, and doesn't limit me in any other way, it should work and eliminate the need for Bricklyne's workaround.

Please correct me if I'm wrong!

Bricklyne Clarence wrote:

laszlonagy wrote:

Bricklyne Clarence wrote:

....and THANK YOU! THANK YOU! THANK YOU! THANK YOU!! GRAPHISOFT for finally fixing the correct display of SEO's on plan view!!!!!

I can't tell you how many times (even in the last few weeks) I've had to resort to the old work-around of saving a .jpg image file of the top view in Axonometric on the 3D window and then saving that image as a worksheet and then scaling it to the right size by referencing the floor plan through virtual reference and then finally using virtual reference again on the floor plan with that image to trace the correct SEO cut of a cut element just to have it display correctly on plan.

Bricklyne,
Can you tell me which feature you are referring to?
Results of SEOs shown on Floor Plan? For which elements?
I might be wrong but I am not aware of such a new feature.
Or I might just be misunderstanding something.

Turns out that it was a mistake on my part.

I saw one of the demo videos which seemed to indicate that Graphisoft had fixed the problem or bug wherein elements that had SEO operations performed on them did not show the cut at all in plan view forcing one to have to manually draw it for documentation purposes.

It seems like it was actually a Morph element they were showing with the cut since Morph elements display SEO cuts on the floor plan correctly.
For all other construction elements (walls, roofs, slabs, C/W's, etc) there is no cut shown unless you convert it into a Morph, I guess, which is kind of useless if still hope for that element to function in its intended purpose and especially if you have to modify it later on as a construction element.

So, my mistake.

We're still stuck with work-arounds to deal with that issue, I suppose.

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ArchiCAD 17 announced

Thomas_Holm@nospamplease.com — Mon, 13 May 2013 15:40:10 GMT

Author:Thomas Holm
Posted: Mon May 13, 2013 4:40 pm (GMT+1)

Any news about library management, especially during version transitions?
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