Search the Knowledge Base Report a bug
Post new topic   Reply to topic   printer-friendly view   .    ArchiCAD-Talk Forum Index >>> Teamwork / BIM Server >>> BIM Server backup schedule
View previous topic :: View next topic
Author Message
Geoff Briggs
Veteran member
Veteran member

Joined: 29 Oct 2003
Posts: 635
Location: Seattle, USA

PostPosted: Mon Nov 23, 2009 7:56 pm    Post subject: BIM Server backup schedule Reply with quote

I am confused by the BIM Server's backup schedule.

It appears straightforward but far fewer backups are being generated than my setting would indicate. I have it set to backup every two hours, but there are whole days where no backup occurs. The project in question is seeing very little activity as we wait for the clients to make some decisions. But I have been tweaking the layout book and importing some scanned sketches, so there definitely have been changes. Is there an activity threshold as well as a time threshold?

_________________
Regards,
Geoff Briggs
I & I Design

AC18US/ 2.8GHz i7 iMac (2009), 12GB RAM, Radeon HD5670 / OS 10.10.x
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message    
laszlonagy
Site Admin
Site Admin

Joined: 20 Oct 2003
Posts: 8013
Location: Budapest, Hungary

PostPosted: Mon Nov 23, 2009 9:13 pm    Post subject: Re: BIM Server backup schedule Reply with quote

I have had similar experiences.
Fewer backups were created than should have.
I let GS know about this.

_________________

Laszlo Nagy, Moderator, Site Admin
https://twitter.com/laszlonagy

AMD Ryzen 1700X 3.4 GHz, 32 GB DDR4 RAM
28" (2560x1440), NVidia GTX 1060 6GB
500 GB NVMe SSD, WIN10 PRO ENG
AC13-AC21
Loving ARCHICAD since 1995
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website    
Ed Brown
Graphisoft

Joined: 02 Aug 2004
Posts: 71
Location: Budapest

PostPosted: Tue Dec 08, 2009 9:34 am    Post subject: Re: BIM Server backup schedule Reply with quote

The BIM Server only checks whether it should backup at the time a send/receives has taken place. At this point it examines whether the time-to –backup time has passed, if it has it performs a backup. That is, the passage of the time is not enough to trigger a backup, the project on the server must also change via a send/receive.

In the project log you can see when send/receives and the backups are triggered. Do you have a case where the time to backup period had passed and you sent/received and the backup did not run?

_________________
Graphisoft Technical Support
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message    
Geoff Briggs
Veteran member
Veteran member

Joined: 29 Oct 2003
Posts: 635
Location: Seattle, USA

PostPosted: Wed Dec 09, 2009 3:35 am    Post subject: Re: BIM Server backup schedule Reply with quote

Thanks for the explanation Ed. My confusion was in the trigger. It’s not the most recent BU but rather the last S/R. So it’s:

BU—>variable lag based on use—>S/R—>BU interval—>BU

The variable lag is the wild card. You can’t tell when the BU is running (or can you?). You may have just done a S/R just prior to it firing. If it’s then a few hours before your next S/R then the BU might not run at all the rest of the day, depending on the interval. Probably why I might only see two BUs in a day even though my interval is set to 2hrs.

_________________
Regards,
Geoff Briggs
I & I Design

AC18US/ 2.8GHz i7 iMac (2009), 12GB RAM, Radeon HD5670 / OS 10.10.x
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message    
Tim Boeckman
New member
New member

Joined: 27 Oct 2003
Posts: 28
Location: Tulsa, Oklahoma, USA

PostPosted: Wed Dec 09, 2009 3:32 pm    Post subject: Re: BIM Server backup schedule Reply with quote

My concern over the backup logic is that there is no guarantee that a backup will be made. I would like a system that would create a backup at regular intervals, regardless of user activity, so that if a user messes up a project there is a backup we can rollback to. With the present scheduling logic a backup file may not be available to rollback to. I have scheduled a project to create a backup once a day at 3am and a backup has yet to be created.

We have scheduled a task on our server to create a daily cold database backup per the instructions listed on archiwiki. This runs prior to our scheduled nightly off-site backup, but it is also the only guaranteed daily backup version we have. Unfortunately the restore of this backup is not as seamless as the rollback function of the automatic backup.

I have two wishes; that Graphisoft rethink the logic behind triggering automatic backups to at least provide an option for a regular interval, and that a cold-database backup process be provided similar to the process used by Filemaker Server, which is built-in to the service and does not require stopping the service.

We are running BIM Server on Win Server 2003.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message    
Geoff Briggs
Veteran member
Veteran member

Joined: 29 Oct 2003
Posts: 635
Location: Seattle, USA

PostPosted: Wed Dec 09, 2009 9:50 pm    Post subject: Re: BIM Server backup schedule Reply with quote

I agree Tim. Nothing wrong with the current logic per se, but more options are needed.
_________________
Regards,
Geoff Briggs
I & I Design

AC18US/ 2.8GHz i7 iMac (2009), 12GB RAM, Radeon HD5670 / OS 10.10.x
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message    
gkovacsp
Graphisoft

Joined: 20 Nov 2003
Posts: 82
Location: Budapest

PostPosted: Wed Dec 16, 2009 1:16 pm    Post subject: Re: BIM Server backup schedule Reply with quote

I'm not sure what is the problem with GS's backup logic, probably just a little misunderstanding.

I'll try to clear it up:

There are two types backup:
-scheduled at a specific time of the day
-scheduled at regular intervals

The backup tries to be clever (and in my experience it does not just try but it is): if there were no changes whatsoever on the project, then it doesn't create a new backup, since it would be exactly the same as the last one. This way it saves time and power.

The backup schedule is set up for the projects, when the server starts. If you specified 1 hour interval and you started the server at 8am, then it schedules the backups for 9am, 10am, 11am...

The server takes at deep breath at these times and checks the project. (If more projects have the same backup schedules, then it checks the more projects).

Lets see:
-you arrive to the office at 8am, start the server (you are not supposed to switch it off, this is justr for the example)
-start to work on Project A at 8:15
-finish working on project A at 8:30. (Leave or Close, or just don't do any S&R)
-at 9am the server starts the backup procedure, it realizes Project A has changed since 8am, so it creates a new backup
-you are a lazy bastard and have a coffee and a cigarette break for 2 hours
-at 10am server starts the backup procedure, it realizes you haven't done anything since 9am, so it doesn't create a new backup
-at 11am the very same thing happens: you haven't done anything - the server doesn't do anything
-at 11:30am you start working again and work continuously until 4:30pm
-the server will check in every hour (12am, 1pm, 2pm, 3pm, 4pm, 5pm, 6pm). It will create a new backup every time until 5pm. At 6pm there will be no new backup, since the project hasn't changed

Why I think it is good:
-if you set to create a backup every hour and to keep the last 10 backup copies, then if you working in the morning you won't have 10 exactly identical backups on the server (11pm, 12pm, 1am,2am.....), just the last one from the previous evening, created at 5pm

It works the same way, if you schedule the backup to a specified time: checks if there were any changes on the project. If there were no changes it will skip the backup creation.

I hope it helps, let me know your thoughts.

Gabor
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message    
Rod Jurich
Veteran member
Veteran member

Joined: 05 Nov 2003
Posts: 667
Location: Chittering Western Australia

PostPosted: Thu Dec 17, 2009 3:52 am    Post subject: Re: BIM Server backup schedule Reply with quote

gkovacsp wrote:
/......I hope it helps, let me know your thoughts.
Gabor

Köszönöm Gábor, excellent explanation and with humour Laughing

_________________
Rod Jurich
AC4.55 - AC14 INT (4204) |  | OBJECTiVE |
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message    
Geoff Briggs
Veteran member
Veteran member

Joined: 29 Oct 2003
Posts: 635
Location: Seattle, USA

PostPosted: Fri Dec 18, 2009 5:57 pm    Post subject: Re: BIM Server backup schedule Reply with quote

gkovacsp wrote:

There are two types backup:
-scheduled at a specific time of the day
-scheduled at regular intervals


Gabor, I now understand how it works, and do appreciate the cleverness. But as you say there are two types of backup. The BIM Server offers only one, the interval type. Some users clearly prefer the other because it better fits their office system. That should be an option.

_________________
Regards,
Geoff Briggs
I & I Design

AC18US/ 2.8GHz i7 iMac (2009), 12GB RAM, Radeon HD5670 / OS 10.10.x
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message    
Display posts from previous:   
View previous topic :: View next topic
Post new topic   Reply to topic   printer-friendly view       ArchiCAD-Talk Forum Index >>> Teamwork / BIM Server >>> BIM Server backup schedule All times are GMT + 1 Hour
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
Copyright © 2012 - Graphisoft SE. All rights reserved worldwide. Terms of Use | Privacy Policy