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What's your opinion about this wish?
Essential (5)
62%
 62%  [ 5 ]
Important (4)
25%
 25%  [ 2 ]
Average (3)
12%
 12%  [ 1 ]
Not important (2)
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
Not needed (1)
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
Average: 4.50 points
Total Votes : 8

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sityu
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 26, 2015 7:51 am    Post subject: major developments on dimensioning tool Reply with quote

1) The dimension points should have "hard", and editable connectoins to the dimensioned elements. Because, now the connection is "soft": you can only see a blink of the dimensioned hotspot, showing only the position. But you cannot see whether is it a static or associated dimensioning point; and if an associated point has changed, the dimensioning point just disappears (instead of changing into a static point).
So, the improved dimension tool should consist of 2 major parts: the dimension line itself, and the editable dimensioning points with colour codes (or smart icons, e.g. checkmark, mercedes, etc.)
2) Automatic dimensioning should be developed: in 2015 the AI algorithms can detect smiling faces, and can tell, who's on a video. So, a leading BIM software should be able to suggest fairly good dimensioning for a model with known property elements, and known rules of dimensioning. I don't know, how to code the scripts for this feature; I only know, that this feature request should be feasible.
3) The rules of the placement of the dimension numbers should be improved. The program should warn of overlapping text elements. Because in a printed drawing it's annoying if you see overprinted texts or numbers.
4) overall: more automatisms. e.g.: optimal distance suggestions to existing dimension lines (showing the optimal position of a new dim. line - because it's bad, if you place them too close or too far); scale dependent display of dim. lines should be a property of them (you should have to dimension the drawing once for every scale);
5) you should be able to set the size of the dimensioned element by changing the dimension number.
6) visual and algorithmic connection between dimension numbers (somehow like in the grasshopper for rhino)

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sityu
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 26, 2015 8:49 am    Post subject: Re: major developments on dimensioning tool Reply with quote

Additional explanations:
Making an architectural plan with a BIM software (like archicad) consists of 3 major parts:
1) making the 3d BIM model;
2) improving the model into drawings (setting the scales, dimensioning etc.)
3) publication of the drawings (making the sheets, the sets of sheets; publication of the desired file-types etc.)

In the past almost 20 years, the archicad improved a lot in 2 of the mentioned 3 above: in the 1st and in the 3rd; but fairly few in the 2nd.
15 years ago there weren't curved walls, shell and morph tool, editing in 3d etc. And there was the separate software, called plotMaker, with limited features of making sheets of drawings. So many developments in these fields made archicad a leading software in BIM.
But there were almost no change in annotation tools: dimensioning, labeling, zone tools are almost the same as they were more than 15 years ago. But an effective work needs effective tools. In the software industry there are only a few things consistent throughout decades.
So, the dimensioning tools in archicad really need a complete revamp!

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Daniel Dusoswa
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 02, 2015 12:09 am    Post subject: Re: major developments on dimensioning tool Reply with quote

sityu wrote:
1) The dimension points should have "hard", and editable connectoins to the dimensioned elements. Because, now the connection is "soft": you can only see a blink of the dimensioned hotspot, showing only the position. But you cannot see whether is it a static or associated dimensioning point; and if an associated point has changed, the dimensioning point just disappears (instead of changing into a static point).
So, the improved dimension tool should consist of 2 major parts: the dimension line itself, and the editable dimensioning points with colour codes (or smart icons, e.g. checkmark, mercedes, etc.)


I don't agree, you can easily achieve this with a combination of lines, hotspots and dimensioning tool. I use a different colour for static measurements.

In relation to the other points, horses for courses.. Automation can be great but also a pain. I also do work in Revit and it often does what it wants automatically and is quite often not what I want and is hard to edit... In ArchiCad there is less automated but great editing options.

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sityu
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 02, 2015 4:08 pm    Post subject: Re: major developments on dimensioning tool Reply with quote

You're right, Daniel, I see: there's no need of dimensioning tool, either, 'cause it's possible to draw dimensioning lines with line tool (and even the text tool is unnecessary: texts also can be drawn by lines, too).

But seriously, the core of my suggestion was about a UX (user experience) issue. Not about a bug, or a completely missing feature; but an improvement which can do the usage of the archicad better, easier and more comfortable.
Actually, a user interface improvement. Not a complete new feature or tool.

The dimension lines have connections to the dimensioned elements, already; but this connection is "weak", one-way, and cannot be edited later (you can only be informed about the associated dimensions by long-pressing the dimension-line points, but you cannot do anything with it). Uneditable features are uncomfortable.
My suggestion was about this missing editing function.
The realisation of this new function wouldn't be so difficult to implement (the archicad used to have much more complicated improvements year by year, version by version - think about the virtual tracing, the moph and shell tool, the implementation of the plotmaker etc.); and the dimension tool would have only an additional feature, not a completely new manner (you could use the dimension tool just before, but you get new additional functions).

Let me give some explanations:
It happened to me often: the dimension lines changed (dimension points disappeared, or changed), because of the change of the model. It happened both on floorplans and section/elevations, too. And it was annoying. If you have dozens of drawings, with couple of dozens of dimension lines, you won't be able to realize these changes. Or it would be a tremendous work to check all the lines.
But if the dimension lines could indicate these changes (e.g. with 4 colours: red for deleted associative point, yellow for modified, green for ok, white for non-associative), and you can check the changes manually, and give them ok's to do the changes - this featute could eliminate several annoyances.
And when you do the dimensioning, it's hard to determine the real aim of the dimensioning point (e.g.: overlapping hotspots of different elements - wall-corner/column/slab/object/grid). And it would be good to have them changeable.

The second part of my suggestion (about the setting the sizes of the dimensioned element, and the algorithmic stuff) was only a complementary proposal. If the developers in Graphisoft started to work on improving this tool, it would be great having more features implemented.

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Barry Kelly
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 03, 2015 4:21 am    Post subject: Re: major developments on dimensioning tool Reply with quote

sityu wrote:

The dimension lines have connections to the dimensioned elements, already; but this connection is "weak", one-way, and cannot be edited later (you can only be informed about the associated dimensions by long-pressing the dimension-line points, but you cannot do anything with it). Uneditable features are uncomfortable.


Try holding the SHIFT key while hovering over the nodes and you will get instant feedback as to what they are associated to.

sityu wrote:

And when you do the dimensioning, it's hard to determine the real aim of the dimensioning point (e.g.: overlapping hotspots of different elements - wall-corner/column/slab/object/grid). And it would be good to have them changeable.


When doing the initial dimensioning I tend to turn all unnecessary layers of and dimension just the walls for example so I can be sure the dimensions are associated to the walls only.

Otherwise when there are multiple overlapping nodes you can press the TAB key while hovering over the node to highlight the element you want to dimension.
When it highlights then you click to associated the dimension to it.

Barry.

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sityu
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 03, 2015 7:18 am    Post subject: Re: major developments on dimensioning tool Reply with quote

Barry Kelly wrote:

Try holding the SHIFT key while hovering over the nodes and you will get instant feedback as to what they are associated to.

You're right. I forgot this feature. (I used to check all the new features of new versions; but this feature didn't become a habit of mine.)
But:
1) This is just one step closer to what I suggested, slightly better than long-pressing.
2) You cannot edit it (the only editing feature is to delete and redo it). And the main reason of my suggestion was this post-editing possibility.
3) And it's a temporary thing: only showing while I'm hovering over the right point, and the dimensioned element should be visible on the screen while aiming to the right dimension-point.

Barry Kelly wrote:

When doing the initial dimensioning I tend to turn all unnecessary layers of and dimension just the walls for example so I can be sure the dimensions are associated to the walls only.

Of course I also usually use the layer groups, and view sets to minimalize the number of elements shown on the screen. And usually I'm not using unnecessary editing lines, I make the drafting with automatic drafting lines and with the final elements.
But there are cases, when it would be easier to have really editable dimension lines.

Barry Kelly wrote:

Otherwise when there are multiple overlapping nodes you can press the TAB key while hovering over the node to highlight the element you want to dimension.

It's only working when you're doing the initial dimensioning. And when you try to insert new points to existing line, it's not working (both with pet palette or ctrl+click editing method).

Don't forget: my suggestion was not about replacement of an existing feature, or tool; but an additional new editing mode. All the existing features would remain the same, but my suggestion could be improvement, only.


And another new feature suggestion: the dimension lines should be groupable. And actually: all the elements should be groupable.
There are only a few elements missing this feature: openings, room zones, and dimensioning tools.
But I think there's no reason of this lack: all these elements could be groupable also. There may be only one restriction: only the openings of the same wall should be groupable (it could cause some problems if different walls' openings were in groups - but only the corresponding positions; the ease of common editing would be a useful feature).

And one step forth: there are some restrictions in ArchiCAD. It would be great if graphisoft should revise the need of all these restrictions. (some of the restrictions should remain, because of the logic of the software; but many of them could be eliminated)

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