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Daniel Hruby
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 26, 2008 8:51 pm    Post subject: Problems with curtain wall tool Reply with quote

Just started using curtain wall tool and notice some buggy behavior. Firstly, at some point while editing the curtainwall in 3d, I lose my constraining (shift key) when I get back to plan. I have to quit ArchiCAD to get it back again. VERY ANNOYING.

Secondly, when editing curtainwall, I cannot move frame/mullion members in plan. Isn't this sort of essential ??? Am I missing an edit mode or something? It seems I can only edit in 3d. Which requires that I create 3d proxy elements in order to snpo mullions into an accurate spot. Additionally, when doing this method, the curtainwall obscures foreground objects that I want to snap too. Also seems like a bug.

Thirdly, when I have my curtain wall laid out and I want to edit the vertical spacing via the System Settings, the curtain wall reverts back to the orginal (incorrect) layout, forcing me to suffer through the issues mentioned above.

Perhaps I am jumping the gun on some of these problems and missing a better workflow. Please let me know if anyone has a better way of working with the curtain wall tool.

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laszlonagy
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 27, 2008 2:42 pm    Post subject: Re: Problems with curtain wall tool Reply with quote

Daniel Hruby wrote:
Just started using curtain wall tool and notice some buggy behavior. Firstly, at some point while editing the curtainwall in 3d, I lose my constraining (shift key) when I get back to plan. I have to quit ArchiCAD to get it back again. VERY ANNOYING.


Might be a graphics card driver issue. Just guessing.

Quote:
Secondly, when editing curtainwall, I cannot move frame/mullion members in plan. Isn't this sort of essential ??? Am I missing an edit mode or something? It seems I can only edit in 3d. Which requires that I create 3d proxy elements in order to snpo mullions into an accurate spot. Additionally, when doing this method, the curtainwall obscures foreground objects that I want to snap too. Also seems like a bug.


Yes, editing Curtain Walls is only possible in 3D.

Quote:
Thirdly, when I have my curtain wall laid out and I want to edit the vertical spacing via the System Settings, the curtain wall reverts back to the orginal (incorrect) layout, forcing me to suffer through the issues mentioned above.

Perhaps I am jumping the gun on some of these problems and missing a better workflow. Please let me know if anyone has a better way of working with the curtain wall tool.


If you select the Curtain Wall in the Floor Plan Viewpoint, go to its settings Dialog and change the Scheme in the Scheme page, that should change the Scheme.
When you are in the 3D Window editing the Curtain Wall, that's a bit trickier situation. Here is why:
If you go to the Scheme Tool in the Tool Box, go to its Settings Dialog and change the settings of the Scheme, it will not change the Curtain Wall. You have to first select the Curtain Wall, and then go to the Scheme Settings Dialog for changes to become effective. If no Curtain Wall is selected, the change will be changes in the default setting of the Scheme but not changes in the already placed Curtain Wall instance.

However, if you click the System Settings button in the small command menu appearing in the upper left corner of the 3D Window while editing the Curtain Wall, any change you make there will be immediately applied to the Curtain Wall (since in that case the program knows that there is one Curtain Wall opened for editing and that is that one to which changes need to be applied).
So it is a bit tricky.

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xristina
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 27, 2008 3:17 pm    Post subject: Re: Problems with curtain wall tool Reply with quote

laszlonagy wrote:
Daniel Hruby wrote:
Just started using curtain wall tool and notice some buggy behavior. Firstly, at some point while editing the curtainwall in 3d, I lose my constraining (shift key) when I get back to plan. I have to quit ArchiCAD to get it back again. VERY ANNOYING.


Might be a graphics card driver issue. Just guessing.


have the same issue.... but
don't use the shift constraint whilst editing the CW. you don't need to... you'll find that if you don't use it and then go back to the plan view the shift constraint will still work.

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Daniel Hruby
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 27, 2008 6:20 pm    Post subject: Re: Problems with curtain wall tool Reply with quote

laszlonagy wrote:


However, if you click the System Settings button in the small command menu appearing in the upper left corner of the 3D Window while editing the Curtain Wall, any change you make there will be immediately applied to the Curtain Wall (since in that case the program knows that there is one Curtain Wall opened for editing and that is that one to which changes need to be applied).
So it is a bit tricky.


To clarify, my situation might be this: I have placed a complicated curtain wall that required some manual positioning of the vertical elements. I later find out that we need to add a row of operable "smoke windows in the curtain wall system.

SO, I do select the curtain wall first and then the "EDIT in 3d" and select system settings to insert a row of windows, click OK, the all the verticals in the curtain wall revert back to their "system" positions. I do not want this to happen, I only want the new ROW of windows to be inserted into the system.

This problem is further complicated by the fact that I must then place normal columns outside the curtainwall to use as proxy objects that I can shift constrain / snap to in order to get the correct spacing of my vertical mullions.

Xristina - This is where my shift constrain problem bites me. I have to use it in 3d in order to get the correct column layout. So when I go back to plan, I have lost the ability to shift constrain and MUST quit ArchiCAD to get it back. I am in a teamwork file too, so this is an extra cumbersome "feature" of the curtain wall tool.

There should be no reason why the curtain wall objects can not be edited in plan view. I should not need to enter a bunch of pre-measured dimensions to layout the curtainwall. I out to be able to right click, add a node (just like a fill or slab can do) and a vertial frame element will appear and allow me to slide it left or right in plan. Horizontal elements should behave the same way in section or elevation windows.

Limiting the user to editing in 3d strips us from valuable information found in 2d on the plan. Early in the design process, we don't have precise dimensions to enter into the curtain wall. And later we might need to modify that wall and KEEP all of the work we did to set up the layout of the wall. Adding a row of windows now requires me to go back and reset all of the verticals again by placing temporary columns outside the wall so I can snap to the correct positions.

Sorry for the rant, I am hopeful there might be something I am missing.....

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laszlonagy
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 28, 2008 11:45 am    Post subject: Re: Problems with curtain wall tool Reply with quote

The way it works now is that you need to set the Scheme and try to make it final before starting to customize the Curtain Wall, because this is what will happen: if you customize the Scheme, those changes may not be preserved.
So that is the safe way of doing it: to think in advance how you want to do it exactly.
I am not saying that this is right, I am just saying that this is how it is.

About the additional elements you need to create: you can Show in 3D the Curtain Wall and other elements. Then the Environment can be shown while editing the Curtain Wall and you can snap to nodes of elements in the Environment.

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xristina
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 28, 2008 12:50 pm    Post subject: Re: Problems with curtain wall tool Reply with quote

[quote="Daniel Hruby"]
laszlonagy wrote:


Xristina - This is where my shift constrain problem bites me. I have to use it in 3d in order to get the correct column layout. So when I go back to plan, I have lost the ability to shift constrain and MUST quit ArchiCAD to get it back. I am in a teamwork file too, so this is an extra cumbersome "feature" of the curtain wall tool.


can't help with the scheme settings and customisation issue, sorry, but i know what you mean about the shift constraint...
perhaps i didn't make myself clear... if you want the vertical elements of the CW to line up with the columns (or whatever else), select both CW and columns on plan, go to 3D showing only those (generates quicker if you 've got less elements showing whilst in 3D... but this is optional... anyway) THEN, choose CW, choose edit, choose the vertical elements you want to edit and drag them whilst moving your cursor to the column 'snap' point... this is where you DON'T need to use shift constraint. the vertical elements will move within the CW and will stay there whilst your cursor is hovering elsewhere in the plan snapping where you want it.... you'll find that shift will keep on working when you go back to plan after editing.
HTH.
BTW, I find turning off the frames and panels and using the CW grids (turn on the scheme) to edit whole rows of frames easier.....

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Daniel Hruby
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 28, 2008 6:19 pm    Post subject: Re: Problems with curtain wall tool Reply with quote

Thanks Laszlo.

Xristina - I see what you mean now. Scheme vertical is already constrained by the fact that it is in the plane of the curtain wall. I will do this from now on. Thanks!

Another defect is that when I have these columns in front of the curtain wall (in order to snap to them) as soon as I select the vertical in the CW, the columns disappear behind the curtain wall. or rather the curtain wall becomes a foreground object and i can not snap to my columns unless I rotate to a more overhead view. Again, this makes editing a precise scheme difficult.

Thanks for the input. I hope GS will note these deficiencies and improve the CW tool.

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laszlonagy
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 29, 2008 5:23 pm    Post subject: Re: Problems with curtain wall tool Reply with quote

I am sure GS will continue to improve the Curtain Wall Tool.
Although it does not know everything, for a first iteration I found it pretty impressive.

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Djordje
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 30, 2008 4:46 am    Post subject: Re: Problems with curtain wall tool Reply with quote

laszlonagy wrote:
I am sure GS will continue to improve the Curtain Wall Tool.
Although it does not know everything, for a first iteration I found it pretty impressive.


Agreed.

For a template of composite systems showing the way into the future, even more impressive.

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darwinland
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 4:59 pm    Post subject: Re: Problems with curtain wall tool Reply with quote

Today is my first day with curtain walls and trying to edit it, snapping one mullion to a corner of the frame, so I can move again to a certain distance, (It is a chain built curtain wall so thats why I can edit the scheme and get what I want). The problem is that the snap is not working instead of moving all the mullion it rotates itself from the opposite intersection.
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