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NandoMogollon
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 04, 2008 8:08 am    Post subject: Big team, Single Building. Reply with quote

Hi,
there is the situation:
We are working with 20 guys, in a single building. (the terminal building for an airport)

Today we are working with a simple PLP and 6 PLC files. all other guys are working on MOD files that have been placed into the PLP file as a Hotlinked Module Files (HLM).

And we have like 8 PLN files for Layouting only ( we need to produce about 1600 sheets)

Would it be better IF: ...

Instead of working on a single PLP, working on, let say 6 PLCs and Put them all together as HLM files on a different PLN?

In that case:

How can we guarantee the consistency of the layer combinations, Pensets, Model View options, fills, composities, profiles and others attributes, all over 6 PLP files?

I'll really appreciate any opinion or help from you. (it doesn't matter if you're a Guru or not)

Thanks !

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TomWaltz
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 04, 2008 11:09 am    Post subject: Re: Big team, Single Building. Reply with quote

Have you read the Graphisoft Big Building White Paper? It addresses a lot of the larger team issues.
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NandoMogollon
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 04, 2008 12:25 pm    Post subject: Re: Big team, Single Building. Reply with quote

Thanks Tom that is a great document , I have read it a week ago.
the problem is that it doesn't answers this specific questions...

--How can we guarantee the consistency of the layer combinations, Pensets, Model View options, fills, composites, profiles and others attributes, all over 6 PLP files?

Thanks

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Nando Mogollon

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ejrolon
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 04, 2008 12:52 pm    Post subject: Re: Big team, Single Building. Reply with quote

Get a Whip! Very Happy Very Happy

You have to implement a system (templates and a Team leader who will make the decisions) and at a minimum do a spot check daily of the work until you are satisfied that everyone is following the rules, then you can relax a little bit.

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TomWaltz
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 04, 2008 9:53 pm    Post subject: Re: Big team, Single Building. Reply with quote

NandoMogollon wrote:
Thanks Tom that is a great document , I have read it a week ago.
the problem is that it doesn't answers this specific questions...

--How can we guarantee the consistency of the layer combinations, Pensets, Model View options, fills, composites, profiles and others attributes, all over 6 PLP files?

Thanks


You can't guarantee it. It's a manual process you will have to use the Attribute Manager for.

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NandoMogollon
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 06, 2008 5:29 pm    Post subject: Re: Big team, Single Building. Reply with quote

Thanks Tom, i needed someone to comfirms that to me.

I think our team work has a lot of experience in autocad but not in archicad. that is been a problem... I hope we can go trough that initial phase soon.

Eduardo, Gracias.

Cheers / saludos

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Juha Vesen
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 07, 2008 10:31 am    Post subject: Re: Big team, Single Building. Reply with quote

Hello,

NandoMogollon wrote:
all other guys are working on MOD files that have been placed into the PLP file as a Hotlinked Module Files (HLM).


I would like to warn using MOD-files for working instead of PLN's; the MOD contains only the elements that are saved in it and no 'PLN structure'. If you open a MOD it copies itself ALL the attributes that were present in the previous PLN, PLC, DWG or whatever file was open in ArchiCAD.

So if for example you open a DWG containing dozens of odd layers and after that open the hotlinked module and save it -> your teamwork PLP gets all the odd attributes as will all the team member's PLC's after contacting the PLP or updating links.

If you want to modify linked MOD's, then be sure to open a decent PLN (which contains only accepted attributes) before opening and saving it. Better off with PLN's.

---
Regards, Juha

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JWD
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 09, 2008 10:23 pm    Post subject: Re: Big team, Single Building. Reply with quote

This is where ArchiCAD really shines. There are HUNDREDS of ways you can implement the program to multitask with a larger team. The beauty of ArchiCAD is that you DON'T need a large team to flesh out a larger building to a great level of detail. I worked on a 10 000 sqm (around 110 000 sq.ft) public building with a team of FIVE to completion many years back. And it was fun.

Even though your project may be larger, the principles can be the same. The way we did that one was having one person work on the building envelope and annotation, one person working on circulation and stairs, another on details, etc etc etc... each person exports their objects (i.e. stairs, room interiors, technical details) to the current library for updating on the computer of the person building the envelope. This way you don't have to mess with any nasty teamwork issues.

Where it got really interesting - in our case - because we had a lot of rooms which were identical - was having a separate PLN file for our master and exporting library symbols for the rooms. We also set up multiple libraries for different scales (was faster than assigning elements in GDL for global scale - esp since not everyone's great at GDL). But it worked GREAT overall and was super efficient. You just have to think about modularity in your drawings and prevent redundancy in tasks. Hope that helps somewhat.

Another nice aspect of this is, apart from partitioning of work and data safety, was that the redraw of the incredibly detailed plan was superfast, the main file was really small and it forces pen weights and attributes to be identical or at least within a confined zone. Of course, there will still be SOME coordination to take care of...! As with ANY endeavour between two people or more.

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Rob
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 4:38 am    Post subject: Re: Big team, Single Building. Reply with quote

just for reference - one of the methods how to keep attributes in all linked files under control is to set up each individual file as a teamwork file so this way you can prevent user fiddling (assuming that users would use the teammate account only)
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NandoMogollon
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 12, 2008 10:35 am    Post subject: Re: Big team, Single Building. Reply with quote

Thanks to you all guys.
Let tell you what we are doing after all.

The project itself is a Terminal building for a new international airport. so its about 130.000. m2.

The basic solution we adapted was, split the main plp file into 6 new plp files:
1. Interiors (walls, ceilings, furniture, storefronts, etc...)
2. Structure (for Concrete and steel structure coordination)
3. Envelope ( for the all the exterior walls, claddings, glazing work, Roof, etc..)
4. Services Coordination (HVAC, fire, electrical, wet services, security, baggage handling, coordination)
5. Procurement (for all the documentation regarding specs, quantities, etc...)
6. Site ( for the terrain, roads, and the general exterior works.)

Of course all the Layout books are in different files, with the drawings linked to the specific plp where the view was saved. (... we have just missing those old pmk files.... quick access to a view trough a stand alone file)

The plp can see the others plp information with the hotlink, and not everyone need to see the services or the site, so we basically linked the structure, interiors and envelope.

The graphical Standards have been coordinated manually almost every friday. Is not that difficult after all.

Everything is working good, but still id like to warn you about some thinks that doesn't work 100%:

1. Grid Lines:
Sometimes you have 6 or 7 grid lines on the sections, some times you don't have any.
BUT we have discovered that if you want to see grid lines on your section viewpoint, and the grid lines are not in your workspace or in a hotlink, you have to set the Status of the section to Auto rebuild, it doesn't matter if you rebuild it manually, it doesn't work. Only auto rebuild works... and is not 100 % sure.

2. Layout books:
Updating Views from different PLP files that are 60mb (+) size its tricky sometimes. for floor plans details and worksheets works almost at 90%, but for general sections, you can wait for 1 hour to rebuild it and maybe an hour or 1 day to get it into the layout book. It is still a problem. That's why i would like to use PMK files again. This gives you the chance of recovering old versions of the project even in 2D.

3. Xref Layers:
To be honest, working with so many consultants and contractors... coordinating structure services, details, etc... you can't always be sure that some one will forget to remove those layers..... Once those layers are in your plp you are lost. you can not erase them. Right now we can count around 450 Xref layers and 220 Project related layers. What a mess.


Just to finalise this, I love this software, even that Revit 2009 has a very nice Rendering engine, Even that Is not popular as Autocad. But we need more Reliability....
R E L I A B I L I T Y.....


Thanks.... Thanks to you all.

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Nando Mogollon

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