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Gil Rosenthal
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2011 6:07 am    Post subject: ArchiCAD & Generative Components (Grasshopper+Geometry G Reply with quote

What does ArchiCAD have to do with GC's?

According to Geometry-Gym, quite a bit!

Geometry Gym develop an IFC plugin for Grasshopper,
while Grasshopper have developed the most mind boggling
generative components synthesizer for Rhino(cerous).

Being a BIM architect in this day and age and NOT knowing
of these tools means you have gone missing.
Wake Up!

My final comment is: Who will develop such tools for GDL?

Gil

Links:
http://www.grasshopper3d.com/
http://geometrygym.blogspot.com/
http://ssi.wikidot.com/start

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Gil Rosenthal
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 09, 2011 9:01 pm    Post subject: Re: ArchiCAD & Generative Components (Grasshopper+Geomet Reply with quote

ArchiStair?

Ever get the feeling the bus left without you?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ggwPyU2Wn74&feature=related

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rwallis
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 09, 2011 11:16 pm    Post subject: Re: ArchiCAD & Generative Components (Grasshopper+Geomet Reply with quote

Thanks for your posts Gil - if anything just reminding the rank and file ArchiCAD user of what their software doesn't do. But then there are so many areas that are lagging it is rather depressing.
A sub par renderer poorly implemented
Lack of visual 3d modelling toolset incl basic commands such as rotate
Lack of relationships between elements
I could go on but when people have to defend the status quo by criticising a style of architecture as irrelevant you know you are in trouble

Keep up the prodding I say - hopefully it will send a message to someone, somewhere that some giant steps are needed in a hurry!!!

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Gil Rosenthal
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 10, 2011 9:23 am    Post subject: Re: ArchiCAD & Generative Components (Grasshopper+Geomet Reply with quote

Hi rwallis,
I have been using AC for over 10 years now, mainly
for its great strengths at productivity and keeping my back covered
in terms of reducing design errors and integrity. The software HAS
evolved over time, and I suppose I put in much effort to learn new
tips & tricks, features and work methods to improve my output.
However -
I came to realize that probably no software out there has the DREAM SET
of features - see how we use Photoshop, Rendering Platforms and others
to fully compliment our work. Even Autocad has its place!

This post started out with Pointing to the linkage of
Rhino - Grasshopper - Geometry Gym (IFC) - Archicad.

This is a new "Cocktail" we can make use of, especially thanks to
the evolving IFC spec. Things are not perfect yet, but I am hoping
the more talk is generated about these topics on this forum, the
better Graphisoft get a nudge in what could be done:

I don't think it would be that impossible to create a GDL based
"Generative Components" system within AC, or as a plugin.

My 2 cents.

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rwallis
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2011 4:57 am    Post subject: Re: ArchiCAD & Generative Components (Grasshopper+Geomet Reply with quote

Agreed Gil.
The resources of GS cannot cover everything, however where there is a gap there needs to be a meaningful bridge to other solutions.

At present a big battle I can see in the BIM world is that of 'native' vs IFC,
i.e. one software pretty much does everything vs. different software that can collaborate.
Ideally I like the second. Without reliable translation though it becomes less viable.
With translation one must consider - not just that the geometry is maintained - but (for example) what do we get in ArchiCAD when we bring in an amazing form from Rhino after some grasshopper magic? A big uneditable lump? How do things like doors and windows get inserted into it? Can zones relate to it? Are any components of it able to be scheduled? A big ask, but if it fails these tests - the whole basis of BIM gets weakened....

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archibaldo
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 12, 2011 1:19 am    Post subject: Re: ArchiCAD & Generative Components (Grasshopper+Geomet Reply with quote

With advanced GDL is possible to make generative accessories and objects .
But no pressure until now . Grasshopper Generative Components is only for max 5% of today architecture . I want not forget the 95% .
Must have more essential tools developed inside archicad . The Generative Components can be done in others app. and imported in archicad .

Import - Export is the future of such particular BIM aspects .
rwallis has right - intelligent bridges between specialized programs is a more efficient approach.

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Olivier Gras
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PostPosted: Mon May 02, 2011 12:22 pm    Post subject: Re: ArchiCAD & Generative Components (Grasshopper+Geomet Reply with quote

That is a topic I've been trying to start for a while now, without much success.
Hope this time you will get more engagement due to your clear explaination of what it is about.

Archicad was the first real parameric modeller, and still has many advantages over others.
You can't go long in parametrics in Revit, but it is good at BIM.
In Grasshopper you have good Parametricity but no BIM.
Archicad could have the best of two worlds.
(by parametrics I mean building an algorithm that generates a geometry according to parameters and logical relations. In revit you can only have very simple relations)

You could build GDL objects in the same way that you build a GS diagram.
And you could use GS-like diagrams to apply operations on the BIM elements of a project.

Then there is this: there is only 5% of architects using the parametric possibilities. But that is not relevant, a program has to open possibilities even if this is not "needed". If this possibilities are interesting more and more users will use it and that is them it will be talked about.

Graphisoft should modernize GDL and take advantage of its real strength .

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Gil Rosenthal
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PostPosted: Mon May 16, 2011 12:59 am    Post subject: Re: ArchiCAD & Generative Components (Grasshopper+Geomet Reply with quote

Olivier Gras wrote:

You could build GDL objects in the same way that you build a GS diagram.
And you could use GS-like diagrams to apply operations on the BIM elements of a project.
...
Graphisoft should modernize GDL and take advantage of its real strength .


OK - I'll tip you off now -
Yes, You can IMPORT the results of a Grasshopper routine, either as
DXF or hopefully as IFC (Geometry Gym) - BUT...

One can create GDL objects that can directly READ text files
created in Grasshopper.... (pause) ... ! ! !


I also want to bring up the issue of Master Scripts "Mesh Generator"
( http://www.masterscript.nl/01/product.php?id_product=37 )

Watch Closely -
An object or set of objects is created that can REPORT discreet
3D co-ordinates to a txt file via the LIST scheme.
The same file is READ back by the AC14 "Surveyor Data to Mesh"
option. B R I L I A N T ! ! !

Smile
Gil

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WhiteMan
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PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2011 5:18 pm    Post subject: Re: ArchiCAD & Generative Components (Grasshopper+Geomet Reply with quote

Importing 3d model is nothing new (althought I find AC very bad when it comes to importing other file formats)

Making a 'link' between two programs (in this case grasshopper and AC) is the aim. And importing or defining it as a wall or a roof etc..
We don't need grasshopper by graphisoft inside AC, but I would kill for a grasshopper plug in.

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Geometry Gym
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PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2011 6:04 pm    Post subject: Re: ArchiCAD & Generative Components (Grasshopper+Geomet Reply with quote

Hi All,

Interesting comments and debate, good to see.

I'm the developer of the Geometry Gym plugins, and the software is licensed "software as a service". This includes support and advise (and new features) to ensure the model exchange meets the requirements that you have (between Rhino, Grasshopper and ArchiCAD via IFC).

Whiteman, the main reason you would choose IFC over a neutral geometric format (such as dxf or iges) is to apply attributes such as material, purpose (roof, beam, slab, stair, window etc), assign to a building, building level etc. All those attributes can be assigned within Grasshopper using my plugin.

I don't get to promote to many of the commercial uses of my plugins, but as I'm involved in this one it's a little easier. This render presents a new canopy at Ballito Lifestyle Mall (in South Africa). It was rendered in Archicad at Evolution (www.evolutionarchitectscc.com/ )



The Steel grid and glass panels were developed and arranged in Grasshopper, the geometric model was exported to Archicad using IFC for geometric checks and detail development, and the structural analysis model sent to structural engineer (www.nessconsulting.co.za/) using the Oasys GSA plugin.

If anyone has any questions or wants to learn more, please post here or contact me directly.

Cheers,

Jon
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