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#314418
That's not going to happen (IMHO) for the simple reason that a lot of the issues that those firms are raising in that letter about Autodesk are pretty much the same issues that people already have with Graphisoft and ArchiCAD on this side.

Read the actual letter and exchange "Autodesk" for "Graphisoft (...or Nemetschek)" and "Revit" for "ArchiCAD", and see if the complaints don't ring true for the most parts.

Here's just one example where I've taken the liberty to do exactly just that and see

(Question 3)
'Graphisoft' has tabled a variety of initiatives for the next generation of....
of 'ArchiCAD' but failed to prioritise investment and failed to
communicate the roadmap* for the delivery of a viable platform to users.


In another part they say this......

"Project productivity in architectural and engineering practices is hit daily
because of the lack of scalability and product performance, which then
require sophisticated and practice specific ‘work arounds’.
"

Sound familiar?

(bolding mine, for emphasis.
Everyone here is well familiar with the concept of "work arounds" in ArchiCAD)
*....and there's literally another thread right now and right on this forum where the issue of a roadmap (or lack thereof of one from Graphisoft) has come up)


Other than the high licensing fees and ridiculous subscription payment model (which,.....frankly speaking who's to say we're not that far away from ourselves here?), most of those other issues could apply to even THIS latest version release of AC.
Nobody wants to be reminded of that and when you bring it up a lot of people here get upset or make jokes about it.

Otherwise why hasn't anyone on the GS side capitalized on it yet?
Isn't that the sort of thing you'd jump on if you knew you were on superior footing?

At least the people Autdesk side (the customers and clients) are doing something about it and something vocal enough.
They do have some big guns and big voices to help them do so, though.
We don't have the Zaha Hadids, the Grimshaws and the Stirks, Rogers', the Harbour and Partners et al.... to help us make the point.
(We used to have the Barke Ingels and the B.I.G.'s and the likes but they're no longer ArchiCAD users. Maybe there's something to that.)

Perhaps this all explains why Graphisoft's current strategy seems to be to cater primarily (and almost exclusively) to those sort of "big name" firms and large firms writ large, and the type of customers with the sort of clout that if they were to raise a stink about it, it would be news beyond the just our own little corner of the profession and then you'd really stand a good chance of getting things changed.
#314421
Bricklyne Clarence wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 11:05 pm

Perhaps this all explains why Graphisoft's current strategy seems to be to cater primarily (and almost exclusively) to those sort of "big name" firms and large firms writ large, and the type of customers with the sort of clout that if they were to raise a stink about it, it would be news beyond the just our own little corner of the profession and then you'd really stand a good chance of getting things changed.
I thought exactly the same thing, and to see these new users bring it up and think Graphisoft was any better made me laugh.
A point in case was the user who referenced recently many 15 years old wishes (only a tiny amount that's been asked for) that if done would make our days so much more productive and enjoyable.
#314423
Most of the offices shown in the letter, if not all, are high end practices, but whats interesting is that in many cases, according to the projects shown in their websites (very high quality but down to earth), there is a chance they could probably be better off using Archicad than Revit.

Do they really automate everything that much with Revit? (My Guess is they don't, if that was the case they wouldnt have written this kind of letter. Please correct me if im wrong)
Other than MEP integration and Dynamo (something in which Graphisoft seems to be trying to close the gap), does anyone know what Revit offers at this level of Architectural practice that Archidad doesnt? why insist so much in Revit?
Or is it a legal matter? some practices didnt even want to put their names because they were afraid of who knows what :shock:
By Braza
#314487
Honestly, I don't think that those guys that signed that letter are concerned or wants:
A vision, roadmap and investment strategy that targets adding value
and performance for design based organisations that prioritises the
replacement of Revit from the ground up to reflect the functionality
needed for a 21st century digital industry
A commitment to continuously improving application, and
industry interoperability (including IFC) as well as expanding
geometry support and alignment to international data standards.
Engagement to build a cultural partnership with all customers
based on trust, empathy and respect.
or
Research and development commitment that is, focused on the
needs of the global design community.
They just want to reduce their software bill Period!

I don't think those guys are concerned about their BIM Slaves unpleasant Revit experience at all.

And did you notice that those are mostly UK Firms?
They are just facing the mother of all crises... COVID-19 AND Brexit.
Probably they are negotiating with Autodesk for months and they simply didn't get any discount in their price policy. And now are publishing this letter as a way to put some social pressure on Autodesk to achieve some financial relieve.

Personally I don't care if Revit user will go to AC or not. GS has well survived for all these years without them, right?

What I want, is to see AC being developed to face the challenges of today and the future. And I think they are doing a great job on this matter with the resources they have. I also agree that the late developments didn't put on small firms that smile on the face that we were used to. But come on guys! We all know that AC is hands down the best BIM software on the market... It just needs now a little push on some productivity and UI issues to achieve perfection.

And now that the GS has done the dirty work of preparing AC for the future challenges, lets wait for more good news (I am sure they are coming) and try to be more constructive here. Instead of harshly criticize each others opinion/view just because they doesn't match yours, why not just focus on proposing solutions for AC issues and share our knowledge with less experienced users?
My 2 cents.
#314500
Braza wrote:
Mon Aug 03, 2020 12:52 pm


I don't think those guys are concerned about their BIM Slaves unpleasant Revit experience at all.

Almost choked with my morning cereal reading this :lol: :lol: :lol:

People demand good screens and good chairs at their jobs for the sake of ergonomics. So why not the same with software?
#314516
If anything this letter might at least help to put the changing to REVIT requests to rest - because some client lobbied by AUTODESK consultants demands it...

Quite frankly all tools have their limitations, and if you reach the workaround stage then you are on a good path to master your tool and contribute to its development... although it is frustrating when you are seemingly not being heard for years on even the most fundamental feature requests!

Having said that I really feel for the first time in a long time, that change is afoot.
#314528
Hence my proposal of curating some wishes and focusing our efforts on say, 15-25 things that, if implemented would radically improve Archicads productivity, no matter if you are a super high end architectural practice or a one man show. Because, who knows how they handle the wish list at Graphisoft? for all we know they throw some darts on the list and work on whatever the dart lands on.

(Also, i think we could benefit from getting rid of that small office-big office dichotomy. I´ve known 1 or 2 men practices for whom i have much more respect than some multinational practices.)

Anyway, I have met some resistance with this curating effort, but i still think is a good proposal if we actually do want to see some changes FAST. For example: Mr. Braza recently proposed handling all of your template attributes in a separate file so everything is always updated. So simple and yet trascendental stuff that would benefit and save EVERYONE of us. Personally, i think Mr. Braza´s proposal should be in this 15-25 item list without question.

The How, who, which, why items are selected to create this "essential items that should already be there but arent" (popularly known as EITSABTBA) is open for debate.
#314549
@jl_lt
People demand good screens and good chairs at their jobs for the sake of ergonomics. So why not the same with software?
Those people can demand those changes in their jobs but not the programs.

@Braza
They just want to reduce their software bill Period!
Actually I think the same, cause if for all those years they hadn't said anything about all those issues before, then either they weren't caring about all those issues, or they have a really big problem of blindness and critical thinking regarding BIM software.

If you want another proof, just take BIG (Bjarke Ingels Group), they used to use ArchiCAD for their projects, even Graphisoft webpage used to have a video of their BIM manager at the time talking about the advantages of using ArchiCAD, but few years ago they made the switch to Revit, so you can expect that they have a decent working experiance with the two BIM platforms, and yet, you can see its name in the open letter.