The Global Archicad Community

Stay informed. Get help. Share your knowledge.

Discussions closely related to Archicad. (Example: Do we need a Linux version of Archicad?)

Moderators: Karl Ottenstein, LaszloNagy, ejrolon, Barry Kelly, gkmethy, Csaba Kézér, mtron, mnguyen

#152868
Rob wrote:Ribbon interface tries to fit a square peg into a round hole when used in applications other than it has originated from mate. This is a typical approach of corporate dinosaurs (which MS and ACAD are) to cheaply apply a blanket policy on anything that remotely shares at least one common feature - unfortunately the only common feature of MS Word and particular CAD software is that they suffer from being run on Win.
Haha square peg, round hole is a very good description. Many of the products the ribbon has been applied to only share the common feature of having been bought by Autodesk.

The idea of a new interface for ArchiCAD is interesting - although most common tasks are best handled with shortcuts, there is still something to be said for reducing the proliferation of on-screen buttons, widgets, menus, etc. I know all of this can be extremely customized if you chose to do so via WEPs.

The possibilities for a new interface on the Mac side in particular could be very interesting, but faces the significant hurdle of ArchiCAD being cross platform - meaning there is probably OS specific things that could not be leveraged unless Graphisoft made the major decision to drop a cross-platform UI (one example is the much tighter integration of Services under 10.6, although not sure what the possible uses for AC would be at this time).

Anyway - I am not talking about a simple cosmetic change which some are calling for on the Mac side. This would be nice but totally unnecessary - the current UI is not exactly broken and you know what they say about fixing things that aren't broken.

I am quite confident however that Graphisoft would not make the same mistake as Autodesk. When the time comes for a UI overhaul they will involve significant real-world users in the process. It will of course all happen behind NDA's and so most of us won't see it coming, and there will be things that aren't 100% to the liking of even those involved in the process - but we will not end up with a total fiasco like the Autodesk Ribbon.
#152869
Rob wrote:So I am not sure if we should really bring ADesk to its knees, on the contrary...
Exactly ... competition will only make both stronger.

I think Graphisoft is a much nimbler company with some extremely talented people. There is no Graphisoft Politburo imposing things like the Ribbon on its users. Autodesks advantage is they have the resources to throw huge numbers of programmers at a problem when this is what is required to get a job done (e.g re-writing your app from the ground up in Cocoa). The flip side of these relatively unlimited resources can be you stop needing to think quite as creatively, something i think shows in Revit.

As i said earlier in the thread .. does anyone really think ArchiCAD would be where it is today if Autodesk did not exist? Does anyone think Apple would be the company it is without Microsoft?
#152890
ares997 wrote:This forum is brought to you by the kids in Budapest [...] If you don't want to tell a couple people about your excitment or trepidation it's ok there are kids waiting to replace you.

[....]
Live long and prosper Graphisoft. I got your back.
I don't understand your use of the word "kids." Is it meant to imply some sort of close personal friendship with GS programmers in Budapest? Are we supposed to know who you are, that you can alternate between condescention, familiarity and adoration regarding the programming staff and their work output?

If I didn't know you were an Architect, I'd say your effusive support is a little creepy-needy: I mean, does GS need to know you "have their back?" I cannot imagine what problem you think GS has, that your having their back is going to be a good thing for them, or ArchiCAD.

Your postings are mystifying. Maybe I'm just really dense.
#152891
Rob wrote:
If it's to be a Windows application, which was advertised in past decades, then GS may have to follow the ribbon metaphor / organization. However, it might allow users to preserve previous screen/menu layouts and succeed where others may fail. Preserving some valuable things from the past seems to be sxomething that GS has supported, via WEP and flexible shortcuts.
Didrik,

I really really really hope you are just kidding here... :shock:
Ribbon interface tries to fit a square peg into a round hole when used in applications other than it has originated from mate. This is a typical approach of corporate dinosaurs (which MS and ACAD are) to cheaply apply a blanket policy on anything that remotely shares at least one common feature - unfortunately the only common feature of MS Word and particular CAD software is that they suffer from being run on Win.
Right. Is there a very particular part you're really, really [etc.], hoping I was kidding about? I was not kidding; rather maybe just misinformed. Sorry to dash your hopes, if not your expectations. On the other hand, I do not particularly disagree with you either (except for the really, really [etc.] stuff). I didn't mean to convey the impression that I was a ribbon menu defender. Oh, that's right, I didn't defend them.

I did point out that GS had a history of allowing users to keep previous menu configs and shortcuts, and that perhaps through WEPs users could side-step ribbon menus if it came to that situation.

As odious and goofy as ribbon menus might be, or might become, if they become part of the standard MS Windows interface, GS might have to make some concessions to that interface in order to be considered a "Windows app" -- meaning that once a person knows the Windows interface, one generally has a leg up on applications running in that environment. (Naturally, there is the logically prior question as to whether they want to be a "Windows app," or to just run on Intel processors in some "windowing environment" (don't know what that would be).)

There was a time when, for example, Architrion (now defunct) created its "Windows version," but also wrote their own improved "windowing" interface because they disliked the MS Windows environment's limitations.

Two other things that ArchiCAD and WORD have in common, are that both have an Edit menu and a Save As menu choice.[/i]
#152892
In summary it is important to share your experience and spread the knowledge you have gained about Archicad 13 to those who don't fully realize what is coming.

Should you decide that my posts are so cumbersome and ill concieved attempts at non existent projections in the importance of timing and or our intertwened quantum mechanics then I appoligize for wasting your time.

Do you have any suggestions on what some good methods for spreading the excitment about Archicad 13 are? Is there something that you feel would be a good way to elevate the understanding to others who don't use archicad about the delta server?

I would appreciate your feed back, currently I have been responding to blog posts on revit/bim/archicad and various other sites if you have suggestions I would appreciate it. Again I am just ethusiatic and always being brought down for that because of my verbage or imagery.

"kids" refers to the always imaginative, always creative side to soulving problems facing today, within people. I am amazed at what Viktor and Akos have accomplished with ac13, and they have that child like curiousty, spirit and ethusiasum and the are rather young executives in a rather small company coming up with truly revolutionary solutions to age old problems. I know that ac13 is something they have dreamt of for years in one way or another. Ac13 represents the first release under the new youthful leaders of the software we use. Ac13 is a monumental step in the new dawn of BIM, 64bit, and collaboration across borders and oceans. I can and will be able to free myself from my office and not loose productivty or information. Things are about to change before our eyes. A few releases ago trace was introduced, wasn't that amazing and worth while? Now we are going to be able to do another productive thing to save time, money, and reduce errors and omissions.

Is that not what we love about GS is their constant innovation and redefinition of what we call "our software?". Is it creepy to feel strongly that in all of this you and I are ultimately a team in one of GS's weaker market segments where if we could start to gain some traction it would be better than the 11% reduction in sales we saw last quarter. I want an 11% gain in the next two quarters and atleast a equal share of the market in the next year. How does a branch of GS, GSNA stir the preverbale pot on the eve of an industry changing release. How can we make it known that we have been inovating since day one, and revit isn't bim, adsk is a software eating giant that hasn't come up with a single idea on their own.

We have the tools our consultants can use, we have the tools our clients can use, we connect to industry leading solid modeling software C4D. Which also announced their new version on September 1st.

Understanding the quantum dynamics that exists in our industry and the people in it is vital to comptetion. We aren't isolated and there are many factors at work, many people tied to seeing our software have a good launch. Yet it all comes down to what you are willing and able to. Or if your focus is on how or why this thread came to be and who and why it was created to touch.
#152895
Right. Is there a very particular part you're really, really [etc.], hoping I was kidding about?


Well I wished to be polite - ok then frankly - your suggestion is just silly.

1. AC is Mac/Win application and that obliges developers to keep consistency in AC workflow and UI on both platforms at the same time. Now you are suggesting that AC should have a optional Ribbon Interface so it could be good then to have all flavours of OSX as an option and hey what about X-Window UI on Linux... just in case you'd have some Linux converts working with AC.

2.Ribbon Interface was a blunder for Revit.... hello any lessons learnt?
GS might have to make some concessions to that interface in order to be considered a "Windows app" -- meaning that once a person knows the Windows interface, one generally has a leg up on applications running in that environment.
3. yes right we need more resources dedicated to three (or perhaps you would suggest more) different UIs
#152898
ares997 wrote:... share your experience and spread the knowledge you have gained about Archicad 13 to those who don't fully realize what is coming.
:lol: :lol: Forgive me, it's Saturday night. But, your sentence can be read two ways. I'm laughing at the unintended. :lol: :lol:

Karl
#152899
ares997 wrote:In summary it is important to share your experience and spread the knowledge you have gained about Archicad 13 to those who don't fully realize what is coming.

[....]
I appreciate your enthusiasm and passion, and its expression. Perhaps what bugs me is that you seem to have just arrived at, and announce, these conclusions -- the need for strategies, plans, announcements, and so -- as though no one has been thinking of the same questions for quite some time; as though no one has been doing something about answers for quite some time; and, as though if there were such good strategies, they'd be posted here.

The concept that TW2.0 is going to be instrumental in bringing Autodesk to its knees is to ignore the facts on the ground, including, most especially, the target market. It ignores the powerful Stockholm syndrome among the very heavily invested users of brand "X" who freely admit (or adamantly maintain) that they will not be changing anytime soon, and that they consider looking at alternative products an overhead investment with little chance of return -- in light of their firm belief that "AD will catch up soon enough, anyway." It ignores so many facts, inappropriate for this forum in the first place, that it leaves me speechless.

(Nevertheless I will trudge onward...) One still looks for an ENR or Record article about the upcoming AC13; for an AECCafe article; for the advance copies to show User Groups; for the Mac-v.-PC type memorable ads. Do you dream that these ideas weren't kicked around 10 years ago? Perhaps they can be resurrected, shaped to current times and contexts appropriate to the target market. Too bad no one thought of that before.
ares997 wrote:I am amazed at what Viktor and Akos have accomplished with ac13, and they have that child like curiousty, spirit and ethusiasum [...]
Can you say anything as to why your amazement should be of interest to the forum? Are you a software engineer / designer / network person? On what basis can you say they have "child like curiou..."?
  • 1
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • 6
  • 7
  • 12