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#308759
How do you cater to the younger generations? You PUSH Archicad at the highschool levels. You create "courses" IN highschool that revolve around the use of Archicad.

When sons (twins) were born almost 21 years ago....I remember parents worrying about what PRE-K their kids (that's 3 to 4 years old) was attending because their concerns were that they weren't going to et into a good college........THAT is how you conquer the BIM market.....simply keep pushing the software to the younger and younger generations. I remember a Star Trek episode a while back. I'm a big Star Trek fan and sci-fi in general, that "Data" was talking to a kid on board the Starship and their conversation revolved around the kid, perhaps in 4 or 5th grade...discussing 'Quantum Mechanic Theorums" and "Lightspeed fractal equations"...mind you it's a TV show...but, didn't Captain Kirk introduce the first "flip-phone communicator" back in the 60's? Wasn't it Star Trek who first uttered the words...Universal Communicator?.....and here we are, today, with Google Translate? Hummm.....let that sink in.
jl_lt wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 2:54 pm
With respect to the Gorilla war (i agree Mr Rob, it is a much better term), i don't know if it would work for GS now. If they were going to do it, it was 12 years ago; if they go for it today, it would seem just desperate and probably social media wouldnt be kind with them (as in, completely eviscerate them). Autodesk would rejoice

Back in those days, as we all may remember, autodesk indoctrinated people at architectural Offices but also catered to architects in their embryonic state, that is students, with great results i must say.

On the other hand, to this day, college kids that come to work with us from time to time, none of them had even heard about archicad.

So while GS marketing strategy seems to follow a more organic (and cheaper) approach, I think there is simply no justification nor excuse for this to keep happening in this connected era.

In an time where most kids want everything easy and pretty, GS would be wise to cater to this newer generations as Archicad is definitely prettier, easier, sexier and better (for many things, not everything) than Revit.

So the question is: how do You do that?
How do You cater to those kids and let them know the benefits of Archicad?? when those same kids also want to be exploring and working with parametric/generative design in college before they receive a painful dose of reality once they graduate. And it has already been discussed that Archicad, as of now, is not the software of choice for that kind of architecture.

My first guess is GS needs to find beacons of great design (firms) that also want to promote their software vía tutorials or something like that, but that would cost a lot of money for everyone involved
#308763
And without going that far, Asimov predicted in 'the last question' that in 20,000 years we would have small handheld devices one could ask questions to :lol: times change fast!

And its true. A couple of 14 year old nephews of mine know how to use SketchUp because they use it in school.
Last edited by jl_lt on Wed Mar 25, 2020 7:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
#308764
jl_lt wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 2:22 pm
...

So, to wrap it up, as Mr Dgsketcher says, there are more pressing issues for Archicad developement (a lot), but an easier, semiautomatic way to handle mep couldnt hurt, at least for small(ish) projects. Some ideas:

-the ability to import dwg lines and the software converts it to pipes or hvac ducts, then adjust in 3d
-automátic attachment to fixtures like wc and the likes to generate vertical connections and of course, easy handling of tube inclinations. Havent used the mep add on though, so maybe all this already can be done.

I think we are basically saying the same thing: I don´t want to make calculations in Archicad, but to be able to bring elements from another programs, make small editions and get the blueprints all from within Archicad.

You talk about dwg and I about IFC, but we are saying the same. As far as I know, the MEP plugin does at least part of this, but I think you should be a basic functionality of Archicad.
#308771
@ Jp1138

When I say Civil works tools, I mean a simple road profile that can fit to the terrain and automatically do crossings, joints, curbs, proper terrain modeling, etc. This should be native to AC.

I agree that many of us have small projects and may have technical degrees to do all Trades/Specialties. But lets face it: Reinforcement, MEP Modeler and Energy Evaluation Addons are a joke compared with dedicated software. Ask any professional in those areas will tell you.

Architects shouldn't be doing structural, MEP or Energy Evaluation. This is what ifc does with consultants with professional dedicated software. I just need to place the right number and position of toilets, lavatories, electrical switches, lights, etc. I don't care where the pipes/cables/ducts will pass... I, as an Architect, just have to have common sense, at design phase, to preview, for example: a recessed ceiling, a shaft, an elevated floor, a structural grid, etc. Then I send the bim model to the consultant. I then receive the Structural, MEP, Electrical bim model and check for clashes... and repeat the process until everyone is happy. But Hey! If one have the skill and will to do it himself: export the bim model to a proper MEP, Structural, Energy Evaluation software and do it with professional tools.

Again: GS should focus on the trade of Architects/Urbanists (As Mr. Gábor Bojár´s original vision) and, of course, interoperability with other main stream professional Sructural, MEP, Electrical, Energy Evaluation softwar.
#308772
Braza wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 6:35 pm
@ Jp1138
....
Again: GS should focus on the trade of Architects/Urbanists (As Mr. Gábor Bojár´s original vision) and, of course, interoperability with other main stream professional Sructural, MEP, Electrical, Energy Evaluation softwar.

I completely agree. The MEP capabilities I would like to have in Archicad are related to documentation and maybe preliminary design (I think that´s really the only thing the current MEP plugin does, anyway, as far as I know) Once I get those IFCs I should be able to integrate and document them easily inside the program, so I can have a completely coordinated model. How do you get MEP blueprints right now? Do yo get them directly from other software? Isn´t that problematic with changes in the model? Maybe I don´t get the workflow other people are using with Archicad :oops:
#308774
@ Braza
I don't think it is a case of having technical degrees, it's more a case on simpler projects the ability to mark and check pipe / flue / drain / ventilation runs can be useful. These are jobs where the client would pass out if you said you need a team of design specialists. I am not aware that the MEP extension is anything more than a toolset for drawing basic service routes & terminals. I fully agree you very quickly reach the point of needing specialists these days particularly for MVHR but releasing the MEP tools to general use could be a sensible move by GS if they wanted to do it. And be honest, some of us will probably repurpose those tools for handrails etc. :lol:
#308776
Jp1138 wrote:How do you get MEP blueprints right now?
I just don't. Here in Portugal, consultants send all documents. Practically all of them use CYPE. Though generally speaking, the "bread and butter" projects don't need Construction Documents, as contractors use the Licencing Documents during the construction.
DGSketcher wrote:These are jobs where the client would pass out if you said you need a team of design specialists.
Tell me about it! :wink:

Honestly, if I had the will to do this kind of service, I would invest in learning a dedicated mainstream software like CYPE.
DGSketcher wrote:And be honest, some of us will probably repurpose those tools for handrails etc. :lol:
You bet! :lol:
#308777
DGSketcher wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 7:09 pm
...These are jobs where the client would pass out if you said you need a team of design specialists... And be honest, some of us will probably repurpose those tools for handrails etc. :lol:

Thats exactly what i was talking about. Clients want the whole package just on the architect fee. But they usually end up understanding with some proper spanking

On the other hand, You can be sure we would be inmediately those tools for handrails and what not :lol:
#308779
Braza wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 7:50 pm

I just don't. Here in Portugal, consultants send all documents. Practically all of them use CYPE. Though generally speaking, the "bread and butter" projects don't need Construction Documents, as contractors use the Licencing Documents during the construction.

Well, I use CYPE too, and the blueprints are usually less than ideal :roll: And the IFC it generates are very incomplete right now too. I hope they get there soon, though. Here all that blueprints are part of the project and must be delivered for construction permits, and are usually all made by the architect in small to medium projects. In more complex cases, you colaborate with engineers, but the final project usually has all the documentation.

As @DGSketcher said, I want to at least have the tools to be able to model the MEP instalations within Archicad without having to pay for a plugin. Graphisoft could say their program can model something similar to what Revit can out of the box - not asking for the analysis part.
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