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By jl_lt
#324893
hi mr. Brown. Vectorworks definitely looks very nice and the progress they have shown makes you wonder why archicad is so slow to implement things. still, most things on the video can be done with archicad also.

could you further elaborate about your comment about Archicad25? i think it will be a crucial release
Last edited by jl_lt on Wed Apr 21, 2021 2:15 am, edited 1 time in total.
By Bricklyne Clarence
#324921
jl_lt wrote: Tue Apr 20, 2021 2:58 pm hi mr. Brown. Vectorworks definitely looks very nice and the progress they have shown makes you wonder why archicad is so slow to implement things. still, most things on the video can be done with archicad also.

could you further elaborate about Archicad25? i think it will be a crucial release


We say this every year and almost every year (for the last several versions going back to v21 at least), they've been consistently disappointing and underwhelming.

Culminating in last year's version that seemingly had no improvements for architects or the architecture side, and improvements for engineers instead.

You seem to live in the kind of hope that long-time users can't seem to afford any more.


But hey, at least the bar is low.
Really really low.
By jl_lt
#324924
yeah.im still kind of new to Archicad, so i still look at it with pink colored glasses. maybe time will turn it into dissapointment and cynism about our currently newly wed relationship. but who knows, they might susprise us one of these days.

two questions: is there a feature (or lack of) in archicad that prevented you from actually finishing the job? / and, what is the current limit you have found in archicad be it in terms of size or complexity?
Last edited by jl_lt on Wed Apr 21, 2021 5:49 am, edited 1 time in total.
By Brett Brown
#324927
Bricklyne Clarence wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 12:04 am But hey, at least the bar is low.
Really really low.
Are you insinuating that the competition is as woeful as Archicad and that Graphisoft doesn't have to do much to think they have the best or to keep ahead?

As you have rightly said, they have been for far too long trying to be something for everyone, and relying on Add-on companies to fill in the gaps. With this, they have omitted to get the core basics right, or listen to the user's requests and on and on. What a complete waste of users time the Wishes section is. They just don't listen.

Who asked Structural Analytical model exchange? A few High Rise companies I suspect. Now Graphisoft is asking for feedback after the fact. Shouldn't they have asked this question before they sunk all the time and money developing it for a select few?

As in the other thread on this, as we are doing mostly single-family residential homes our engineers just get our PDF plans and away they go. Has worked like this for decades and can't see it changing.

Graphisoft needs to take a leaf out of Vectorworks book and start making versions for different sectors.
Commercial High Rise etc (what it is now Teamwork) - Single Family Residential (probably an improved Solo) - Engineering as they are already going down this path apparently.

I thought an American CEO might bring change but that certainly hasn't eventuated. AC 25 case in point.
By jl_lt
#324935
Brett Brown wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 2:19 am
Bricklyne Clarence wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 12:04 am But hey, at least the bar is low.
Really really low.
Are you insinuating that the competition is as woeful as Archicad and that Graphisoft doesn't have to do much to think they have the best or to keep ahead?

As you have rightly said, they have been for far too long trying to be something for everyone, and relying on Add-on companies to fill in the gaps. With this, they have omitted to get the core basics right, or listen to the user's requests and on and on. What a complete waste of users time the Wishes section is. They just don't listen.

Who asked Structural Analytical model exchange? A few High Rise companies I suspect. Now Graphisoft is asking for feedback after the fact. Shouldn't they have asked this question before they sunk all the time and money developing it for a select few?

As in the other thread on this, as we are doing mostly single-family residential homes our engineers just get our PDF plans and away they go. Has worked like this for decades and can't see it changing.

Graphisoft needs to take a leaf out of Vectorworks book and start making versions for different sectors.
Commercial High Rise etc (what it is now Teamwork) - Single Family Residential (probably an improved Solo) - Engineering as they are already going down this path apparently.

I thought an American CEO might bring change but that certainly hasn't eventuated. AC 25 case in point.
Let me try to understand: You want Graphisoft to change direction yet you want to keep handing PDFs to structural engineers as it has been for decades?

Im sorry, but i cannot agree with this line of thinking. The moment we decided to jump head first into Archicad and Bim world we knew we would have to get away from older workflows. To do that, we accepted that we would have to adapt our work style and workflow to what the software has to offer (in this case Archicad, but if we had selected Revit or Vectorworks it would have been the same mindset) and then see how i could bring the software closer to what we want to do. Why would i want advanced software to perpetuate old working methods (which, amazingly, Archicad allows to if one wants it to) when i can explore new ones and possibly advance with it??

I understand there is resistance to change, which i have too; it took me forever to jump into BIM, thats why im still new to Archicad, but trying to enclose Archicad as a software for "single family residential" does a disservice to this software and many of its users as it can be used for any kind of projects. Just take a look at what guys like AgWA or De wylder Vink Tallieu, both from Belgium, are doing with Archicad.

(YES, the wishes sections needs a complete overhaul, as in, erase all old wishes and start all over again, but thats another topic)
Last edited by jl_lt on Wed Apr 21, 2021 5:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
By Sunny75
#324944
Hi my 2 cents, we have been working with Vectorworks (2d and 3d) over 10 years and switched to Archicad, 1,5 year ago. What a difference! We accually didn't look back at all. The easyness of use, smoother workflow and way less crahes makes AC the go tool for us now.
Do not get fooled by the flashy presentations, working with archicad is actually much easier than working with VW, when it comes to user interface, handeling of 3d models, speed and modeling capabilities!
By Bricklyne Clarence
#324975
Brett Brown wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 2:19 am
Bricklyne Clarence wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 12:04 am But hey, at least the bar is low.
Really really low.
Are you insinuating that the competition is as woeful as Archicad and that Graphisoft doesn't have to do much to think they have the best or to keep ahead?
......
No, I simply meant that they've spend the last several years producing such underwhelming releases after underwhelming releases, with barely any major improvements (that benefit all or most, and not just large "key client" firms) and culminating in the most recent release that barely even bothered trying to conceal the lack of any meaningful new features at all ( I guess they'll argue that Param-O was a big new feature, but.....that's an argument and discussion for another day).

So much so that NOW the bar of expectation for what to look forward to, as to whether they'll be any new features or major improvements for this next version is so low, they could get away with doing the bare minimum least in terms of a new release. Which, let's be honest, has been kind of the new normality anyway.

As long as it's released on time, and doesn't crash upon opening, then break out the champagne. glasses.
That's practically where we are at now as a userbase.
That we've been conditioned now to expect the least and have the lowest expectations.

And yes, they should just get rid of the Wishlist section altogether.

It doesn't make sense at this point to have it there when you're just going to ignore it and do what you want anyway which seems to involve producing features and "improvements" that most people didn't ask for,
....and then ask for feedback after the fact on these features that (I'd imagine) most aren't even using.
Like, if you're not interested in our opinion before you spend all the time and resources doing it, then logically speaking, why would our feedback be of any value after the fact?

Seems like a waste of time on both ends of that equation to me.
But that's just me.
By jl_lt
#324981
Some time ago you quickly dismissed the idea of a curating effort for that wish list but just the other day i saw there are wishes from back to 2003, some of which might have even been accidentally addresed by Graphisoft!

So, bringing that topic back again, im sure there must be around 10-15 general issues we could all agree with, even Graphisoft AND key clients, that, if addressed, would cover around 80% of all complaints or at least benefit that much of the user base percentage: Why not focus everyones efforts on those and erase everything else? once those issues are solved we can go back complaining on the other 20% and Graphisoft back on trying to innovate.

(And yes, i agree its kind of strange to blindingly do something, like this SAM thing, and then ask for feedback on it when you could have probably gotten better results the other way around.)
Last edited by jl_lt on Thu Apr 22, 2021 3:07 am, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
By Lingwisyer
#324996
Regarding wishes, if they just added feedback beyond that it was officially added to the wish list such as updates if one actually gets picked up followed by dev progress if so would be great. There is just very little transparency...



Ling.
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