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Sections/Elevation/3D Document/Worksheets/Details etc., Annotations, Texts, Labeling, Autotext/Project Info, Layouting, Renovation Filters, Graphic Overrides, Revisions/Issues, Printing/Plotting, PDF, Mark-Up, etc.

Moderators: Karl Ottenstein, LaszloNagy, ejrolon, Barry Kelly, gkmethy

#289456
Wouldn't you need up to 5 of those for each view if you are doing a renovation project?

1. existing
2. to be demolished
3. after demolishing
4. to be built
5. new

This multiplied by floor plans, sections etc would make a very long and impractical list.
#289486
Link wrote:
Mon Dec 03, 2018 4:48 pm
No you just need one per view type. It's quite intuitive once you use it. And because it's pre-linked you needn't adjust them. Just set it and forget it.

Cheers,
Link.
Link,
I'm with Erwin in trying to understand the logic of this system. I'm not saying it's wrong, but I'm not clear how it would be used. For example, I often need to show existing and proposed exterior elevations side by side. If the renovation filter is supposed to show "phases," I don't see how a single "exterior elevation" renovation filter is going to do this. Could you explain how this is intended to be used?
#289490
I'm not sure who has and has not opened the file to check how it works, but I'd recommend anyone who is interested in this topic take a look to get a better grasp on it, as it's very intuitive. It's a pre-linked system - all views are created and placed on layouts from the outset, before the model is built.

That said there are existing plans and demo plans and floor plans (new construction). Each have view settings with matching names. Layer combos, MVO combos, Graphic overrides, dimension settings and renovation filters.

Out of the box they should work just fine, each displaying the existing, to be demolished, new items appropriately. If you need to alter the display of these items per renovation filter, you can make the change to one filter and it will only affect those views & drawings, no others. Similar to making a change to a layer combo will only affect the views that have that combo assigned to them.

In the template there are no existing and proposed elevations because we didn't want to overwhelm the new users. However if you did want these, you could follow the systematic approach and create unique view settings (layer combo, renovation filter, etc) and assign them to each view type (ie. Existing Elevations, Proposed Elevations). This would keep all view settings for each view type consistent throughout the template. You wouldn't use one setting for both view types.

Please keep in mind this is a shift in thinking and the template is aimed at new users, not experienced users who have or should have their own templates in place.

I hope that explains it better.

Cheers,
Link.
#289506
I get that for a new user stepping in there are a lot of options, no worries.

And I think you just confirmed my question, I'll leave out the judgement of if it is practical or not as I've had most of these features introduced over the years, rather than all at one time.

However, since we've hijacked the thread a bit already, the Dutch template (and ours which just has very minor adjustments) splits things a bit differently. Might be interesting to outline.

Layer combo's are very focused on the type of view (elevation, section, floor plan) at different scale levels.
Model view options are focused on the design stages.
Graphic overrides as well.
Renovation is independent of view type or design stage, so the list is very short.

The names are all very clear, so besides having the whole view set setup for all design stages of a project (template), it is quite intuitive to make a new view or cloned folder. What is the view type? What stage am I in? What renovation status?

Overall I get a feeling the Dutch standards are quite concise compared to other countries. Not many layers needed, pen sets have 10 pen weights for a few colours and the rest is just there for shades of colour and 4 or 5 stages of design to go through.
#289515
Link wrote:Consistency and flexibility do come at a cost of complexity
I think it's rather contradictory. Simplicity gives you Consistency and Flexibility.

I had to manage numerous projects and prepared standard and templets from scratch. Because up to around AC 16 out of the box templets weren't very useful in real life, esspatilay those translated (in my case POL version). And those made by 3dr parties were usually overdone.

In many cases, Simplicity and Intuition was the only way to work it out during the lifetime of the project. So if you have so simple and Intuitive thing as Renovation status there is no benefit of changing it.

To be honest I don't even see the need for making different MOV and Graphic overrides for different drawing types. In 80% of cases, you need two styles Concept/Technical and rest are less used graphical styles like schemes, 3D renderings etc..
But doing different categories for Section, Plans and Elevations... It's going to be hard to keep track of it.

I am wondering if USA distributor makes some kind of analysis of how this template is really used.
#289613
"Consistency and flexibility do come at a cost of complexity."
I think it's rather contradictory. Simplicity gives you Consistency and Flexibility.
This is the same thing, right?

It's easy to see the benefits of this system once you have used it. Less easy to defend it against people in other countries who presumably have never opened it, TBH. I do understand the specific purpose of each view setting very well, and I have seen hundreds of different approaches, but with the end-goal in mind this is what we decided was best for our new users.

I think the key point that may be being missed here is that the whole system is pre-linked. So you should rarely, if ever, have to go into these view settings.

In any case, personal preferences aside, I hope I was able to answer the original question.

Cheers,
Link.