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Do you think Nested Complex Profiles and Composites are useful

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By Tim Ball
One of the main reasons why this is so important is because of data structure.

A complex profile is like drawing a construction system
But the materials that make up that system all need to have their own data

At the moment we can add data to a wall drawn as a complex profile, but we can't access the materials that make up that wall

The modelling aspect works well, but the data aspect is inadequate
@Tim: I'm not so sure I am on board with the "nested" aspect which has been suggested elsewhere, I see that would bring modelling benefits, but I think it would also bring a whole host of attribute management problems and unseen drawing errors.

If you are referring to the simple ability to label the sub-elements of CPs then 100% this is essential. We can do this with curtain walls, so it isn't a radical change for GS and it would really help with section annotation.

I would like to explain my thinking on the nested component aspect. It is very easy to get suckered in to the automation aspect of CAD, unfortunately whilst it may speed the design process, it also has the ability to magnify the errors unless the user is meticulous in checking and data management. The simple tweak of a component because it doesn't quite fit the model could lead to the delivery of a significant number of components to site that cannot be used because a designer hadn't realised where a component was nested in the rest of the model.
By Braza
Hi Trevor,
When I made this whish, I was thinking on a very common situation (among some others) that occurs in my workflow: Sometimes I need to create variations of a Complex Profile that share a standard UPN steel profile. The UPN profile has Offset Modifiers which can not be copied to other CP's. So if I could just "Insert" an already existent CP it would considerably speed up the process of creating and managing all CP's sharing a common CP. Another good use of the Nested Complex Profiles, would be in the creation of specific commercial CP's directly from a Dedicated Shared Resource File, that could be used in endless situations along the Project.
Hi Paulo, I am doing a lot of framing work just now using timber I beams, the more I work on them the more I see how easy it is to place a parametric CP, but I also see how quickly things can unravel when the CP default offsets aren't updated because the edit was done quickly in a 2D view, the revision is then published to a module file which is then scattered as Hotlinks throughout the model. Unless the CP error is glaringly obvious it would be very easy to have the contractor fabricating using the wrong CP section. This is a simple example of an un-nested component. If for instance that mis-sized component was nested within another CP and wasn't immediately visible the error may never be detected until too late. Okay maybe I am being overly cautious but be assured when it does go wrong GS won't be footing the bill for poor data management.
By Braza
Thanks for your thoughts. I understand your concerns and I find them very valid.
This is a very tricky ground. It must be taken very carefully to avoid more losses than gains.
DGSketcher wrote:but be assured when it does go wrong GS won't be footing the bill for poor data management.
That is for sure! :)
Your wish is quite interesting !
i was thinking why not merging the Composite and complex profiles together, in my template, i create a 35 cm exterior wall with composite, when that wall crosses a bathroom, i need to split it, convert the bathromm segment to a complex profile to divide it horizontally : 240 ch height : tiles , the rest : finish.
my proposal is :
an interface whic creates skins like composites :
- each skin can receive thickness, building material, renovation satate, modifiers like complex profile, covering fills origin,
- show and hide option, moldings in an interior wall can be shown or hidden.
- finish skins can receive objects , this could be helpfull for cladding work, we create the cladding module, save it as finish wall / roof object , and then it repetes along the wall
- possibility to unmerge two adjascent identical building materials
bouhmidage wrote: Sun Aug 23, 2020 10:24 am i was thinking why not merging the Composite and complex profiles together...
I like that idea from a consolidation perspective. A lazy fix might just be to make the wall skins in a Composite parametric. I wouldn't mind that, as I still haven't fully grasped the CP stretch set up, but I also think of CPs as more component orientated e.g. beam / column type elements. Overall though I would back their consolidation if the modifiers were better explained or easier to use.
By Braza
DGSketcher wrote:
bouhmidage wrote:Sun Aug 23, 2020 9:24 am
i was thinking why not merging the Composite and complex profiles together...
I like that idea from a consolidation perspective.
Yes. Merging the two would be nice. I think composites are a bit of outdated. There is nothing you can do with composites that you can't with Complex Profiles. Perhaps GS is keeping it for the performance sake. If not, I can't see any reason for maintaining it.
By Braza
Thinking better... its not a good idea to merge Composites and Complex Profiles... How would we assign Complex Profiles to Roofs, Slabs and Shells?

Anyway... Another advantage to the Nested Complex Profiles and Composites wish, is that it could take advantage of an also proposed Dedicated Shared Resource File. Where a Project Manager could define project specific nested CP's and Composites (Based on Core and Finish CP's and Composites in a Office Standards Resource File), along with all resources specified by the Client for that particular project. Like a BIM Material/Products Pallete.