The Global ARCHICAD Community

[ejrolon]

You will need to read the manual but but basically Properties are the user configurable parts of Classifications which are usually standard based and which are used to map to IFC or Cobie during export.
To answer the question the answer is yes.

[Tomek Piatek]

I've tried to make the keynote schedule look the way that I want it to look and now I think that we need even more control over access to classification information. In particular I think that it would be useful to access classification attributes at a user selectable level. So I could say in a schedule: display these attributes for "parent", to use a relative reference. This would allow me to have a aggregate row for all "42 Timber Cladding" sub-items, and then list individual items below (i.e. 41.1, 41.2, etc.)

This could potentially be generalised to able to access any node in the tree. I'm just thinking out loud here as I evaluate this feature set. I think there is a lot of untapped potential here for being able to access and manipulate data stored in the model. I mean the data is already there. We just need a way to access it.

[ejrolon]

You already have them they are Properties and Expressions

[Tomek Piatek]

@eduardo Yeah, but...

Properties are simple, non-structured mappings between a property name and its value. Yes, the value can be calculated dynamically using an expression, but you still get a single value. The Option Set type is not useful for more than say 7 values and it only allows for the creation of a flat list.

Classifications are structured hierarchies that can be traversed and explicitly show the relationship between parent, child and sibling nodes.

These two entities complement each other.

As far as I can tell you cannot use properties to create a structured hierarchy of values to choose from. That's what classifications are for. What I'm advocating for is to have more access to classification attributes from within property definition, either through expressions or explicitly by selecting from a list of some sort (as you have shown this is already possible in schedules).

Anyway, I am always open to new knowledge and being shown new ways of getting something done. I welcome your suggestions and thank you for the conversation so far.

[ejrolon]

@eduardo Yeah, but...

…Yes, the value can be calculated dynamically using an expression, but you still get a single value. The Option Set type is not useful for more than say 7 values and it only allows for the creation of a flat list.…

You are still missing the point. Please read more about Properties, Schedules and Expressions

If I define an object using Classification Door with a specific property for type (Door 01, 02, etc) then I can create a property that will assign the correct description listed in the Sequence. for door type 01 then "description= that". AC will continue down the list until it finds the correct one (which are more than 7) and then stop which creates the "Tree".

I can create as many of these Properties as needed and I can organize them hierarchically in the Property window as I want. Doing it here gives the flexibility that I can apply these Properties to any Classification that I want or need.

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You can try to do this with Classifications but it is not as flexible as you keep noting since that is not the purpose for them. If a keynote is a description of a property of a "classified object" then it belongs in the Property Manager. All Door Types are Classified as "Doors" all Door Type information is a Property.

To put it another way, You are trying to use one tool to do what another is designed to do and wishing the first one behaves like the second one. It is as if I want GS to modify the Beam Tool for me to use as a Window (since it creates holes in walls) and I am having to add the frame and pane as Morphs because it does not create it automatically.

The only reason I keep answering your posts is that you keep trying to go down this path and I am trying to avoid others from following since it will come to a dead end. I also need to add that Properties do have their issues/problems too but those are not enough to advocate the use of another tool.

From the Help file:

Classifications

In ARCHICAD, you can optionally assign one or more classifications to any project element. A classification makes parameters and functions available to these elements for use by other applications: to organize project data, to make models transparent, to locate elements, for listing purposes, to share exact data, etc.

https://helpcenter.graphisoft.com/user-guide/77294/

Properties

Expression-based properties have been introduced as one of the main new features in ARCHICAD 22 to help designers in creating data-rich building models. Expressions process existing model data with functions and operators to create new information.

https://helpcenter.graphisoft.com/knowledgebase/83803/

[Tomek Piatek]

Thank you for your continuing effort to educate me. I'm glad that you are just as persistent as I am. I really appreciate all the help I'm getting at this forum.

Yes, I am thinking unconventionally, and some of my thinking is tainted by years of using Revit. I definitely know that at times I need to stop looking at ArchiCAD through Revit glasses. However in this case I disagree that I'm missing the point. I'm just thinking outside of the box. I think we should leave it at that.

Thanks again!

[ejrolon]

I don't mind being unconventional or trying to do things differently.
So we can agree to disagree and I'll leave it at that.

FYI
Attached screenshot of OOTB Label "accessing" the Classification Description.

[Tomek Piatek]

That's brilliant! How did you do that? I've racked my brain over this and I can't figure out a way to get the classification description to appear in the label. Please tell me how you did that.

[ejrolon]

The answer again is using Properties.
This workflow is not recommended though it has the benefit of tying the Keynote to the Description in a way that it is more difficult to edit.
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Steps
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01: Write your Classification
02: In Property Manager create a new Property and make it available for the Classification already created
03: Here's were the process starts to break down (and why you should use Properties). You will need to create as many objects as you have items in your Classification and assign one classification to each. OTOH you can do this at the end of the project and have the list only show what is available.
04: Create a Schedule that has the Criteria "All 3D Objects" and Classification = "Yours" with "Has Value". There might be other options that work here.
05: In Schedule Fields add the one for Classification Description and the one created for the Property. You can add Id or others if you want but they are not necessary.
06: Open the Schedule and go File->Interoperability->Classifications and Properties->Export (Excel Worksheet)
07: Open Excel File and selected the items inn the column that matches the Property and make them equal to the ones on the column for Description. Save the file
08: In AC go File->Interoperability->Classifications and Properties->Import and select the Worksheet
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Now the created Property matches the Classification Description and the Label can read it.
If anything changes just redo steps 06 to 08 and it will update without issues.
If you think this is too difficult or cumbersome or GS should make it easier let me remind you that if you use regular Properties you don't have to do this but you will need to do other stuff.

[Tomek Piatek]

Thanks for that explanation. I though that there was some magical thing that I had missed alas...
I agree that this particular process is not flexible and extensible. In particular I do not wish to create the large classification tree by hand, as I already have a suitable XML file generated from Masterspec's CBI classification system. And I really don't want to create all those properties. It's untenable.

Hey, thanks again for all your help!