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What's your opinion about this wish?

Essential (5)
7
39%
Important (4)
5
28%
Average (3)
1
6%
Not important (2)
No votes
0%
Not needed (1)
5
28%
By alexliz
#68877
I have drawings which are supposed to be viewed and plotted with different Pen Sets. For instance, the main architectural plans use the standard ArchiCAD Pen Set (where for instance pen 6 is a light blue and pen 7 is a dark blue). Mechanical plans, however, are superimposed on the main architectural layers, using different pens (i.e. all mechanical elements are done in pens 198 and 199), and we then use another Pen Set which turns every pen _except_ 198 and 199 to a very pale shade of grey.

The annoying thing is that every time we need to print an architectural or a mechanical Saved View, we have to remember to switch to the appropriate Pen Set.

Bottom line: we need to be able to save the relevant Pen Set together with the Saved View, just like every Saved View remembers its Layer Combination, Scale, Model View Options etc.
By alexliz
#68916
OK, but the whole concept that ArchiCAD is moving closer and closer to each version that comes out, is that things in a project's management should be as automated as possible, with as little human intervention as possible, to speed things up and ensure high accuracy of modelling and documentation.

So, if I am setting up a view in ArchiCAD and save it in the Saved Views sets, and then someone else in the project team (or even myself) at a later stage wants to publish a document (i.e. drawing), but it is necessary for them to remember to switch the Pen Set prior to printing, then where is the automation in that? It much more closely follows ArchiCAD's logic to have the Pen Set embedded in the Saved View data as a parameter: you set it up once (when you save the view), and then you just forget about it unless you want to intervene specifically.

Don't forget, either, that we now have the capability to drag a whole tree of Saved Views (or open them through a dialog) within ArchiCAD's plotting facility (previously PlotMaker). Each Saved View replicates itself and dynamically updates, but if upon adding a new Saved View you have to also remembed which Pen Set should be assigned to the newly placed drawings, then I'm afraid you are setting yourself up for mistakes and wasted time and paper.
By alexliz
#68934
Tom,

I'm not saying it can't be done. I'm just saying that it doesn't go along the lines that ArchiCAD has been moving overall, in terms of system efficiency.

Of course I can put every Saved View on a Layout and at that time also specify and Pen Set to be used for every drawing on the Layout. But then, why don't I also have to specify the Layer Combinations, or the Model View Options for those drawings, too?

The answer is simple, in my view. Just include the Pen Set as a Saved View parameter and leave it at that. Surely, it can be done at no great hassle on the programmers' part.
User avatar
By Geoff Briggs
#68944
This has been discussed repeatedly (from the pre-beta period through today) and I'm guessing there's already a poll as well. In a nut shell the reason that pens are not part of views, despite the fact that such an inclusion seems obvious and consistent, is that separate pens are necessary for layouts since it's common for users to have working (color) pen sets and output (B&W / grayscale) pen sets. Since output tricks like ghosting can be achieved equally by layout or view dependant pen sets Graphisoft decided not to add the additional (redundant) view setting.
User avatar
By Aussie John
#68962
Actually i am glad they DONT. When in CAD view i want to see the colours of the pens so I can relate to them. Then print out without the colours.
By alexliz
#68975
Geoff, John:

I see your point, but, at this time, I beg to differ.

What you suggest is that, as it is now, the system gives the user the flexibility of seeing colors on screen, then switching to another Pen Set and outputting a Grayscale or B&W document. Why can this not be done by simply going in the layout and selecting the drawing, then in Drawing Selection Settings, in the Properties tab, in 'Colors:' selecting the 'Grayscale' of 'Black and White' option?

It is counter-intuitive to have both options available within the Properties tab in the Drawing Selection Settings for each placed Drawing in a layout. Notice how to the left of the 'Colors' option you see the 'Pen Set' option?

Your way, one has to _always_ make sure the current Pen Set is right for each output job.

My way, one has to _only_ interfere with output colors if there is a specific reason for doing so (in your example, they want colors on-screen, not for output).

It would be much more streamlined and error-free as a system if the Pen Set was automatically saved with the View which produces the Drawing, saving color and pen thickness data. If for some reason, as you both suggested, the user needs colors for screen only, but not for output, then just go into the Properties for those drawings (you already do this, even if not only to select just B&W etc. options, but the Pen Set, as well) and instruct ArchiCAD to ignore the pen colors.

Simple and streamlined.
User avatar
By TomWaltz
#68994
I have yet to see why your method is any better than just assigning pens on the layout, both for the overall Layouts and for each independent view placed on the layouts. Once you set the Pen Set, you never have to think about it again. Why is this a bad thing?

Are you printing from Layouts? Or from Model View?
User avatar
By ejrolon
#69001
The concept I see here is that Model views are for working with the project and Layouts are for final printing. The requirements for a Model View, like been able to highlight with colors the different type of objects and taking design decisions means that the Pen Set are secondary to the process. In Layout view the concept is to prepare the drawings for output thus Pen Sets are an important tool and having them unlinked means that I don't have to create different views where the only difference is a Pen Set. Examples are a greyscale-ghost floorplan, or a demo floor plan were I want those walls highlighted in Red.
IMO if I am printing a Model View it is because I want to check something that has to do with the Model /Design Phase of the Project (Pens Sets are not Important, though Line weights might be) and printing in color, greyscale or B/W is not important. If I am printing a Layout then I want to check my Documents and there the Pens Sets are important.