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Discussion of non-graphical data: Properties, Property Expressions, Classifications, Interactive Schedules

Moderators: Karl Ottenstein, LaszloNagy, ejrolon, Barry Kelly, gkmethy

User avatar
By DBS
#300173
Hi!

This is my first time posting to the forum, so please bare with me. I have spent forever trying to make a schedule that lists various finishes in my projects. Everything from paint colors to tile to steel to wood paneling. It seems that the best way to do this is by scheduling surfaces. Of course, surfaces have no inherent properties. It would be ideal to add things like an ID and notes to each surface...

I know Archicad wants us to use the software by programming all data into elements, but It quickly becomes a data management nightmare. Does anyone know a workaround?
User avatar
By LaszloNagy
#300188
In ARCHICAD 23, Building Material will have Properties just like elements can have Properties.
You will be able to define Properties in the Property Manager and make them available to "Material" Classifications. Then these Materials will be displayed in the Building Material Dialog.
Hopefully, this will achieve what you are trying to do.
But, only from AC23 on.
User avatar
By Rex Maximilian
#300259
LaszloNagy wrote:
Sat Aug 03, 2019 12:40 pm
In ARCHICAD 23, Building Material will have Properties just like elements can have Properties.
You will be able to define Properties in the Property Manager and make them available to "Material" Classifications. Then these Materials will be displayed in the Building Material Dialog.
Hopefully, this will achieve what you are trying to do.
But, only from AC23 on.
.
You mention "Building Materials" where he mentions "Surfaces." Will this new solution work for surfaces too?
User avatar
By LaszloNagy
#300319
Well, a Building Material always has a Surface. (The Surface Dialog does not allow you to create Surface Properties, but you can create a Surface-related Property for the Building Material using the Surface.)
So when that Surface is displayed in a Surface Schedule, all other Properties of the Building Material using that Surface can also be displayed.
It would be good to see an example of what DBS would like to achieve, but I think AC23 may be able to do that with these new BM Properties feature.
User avatar
By Rex Maximilian
#300326
My interpretation is that he wants to go to the existing list of surfaces and simply add information to data fields associated with the surfaces (but those field/properties don't exist). The solution you mentioned would work, but that would involve creating a building material for the surfaces he wants to schedule, since not all existing surfaces are linked to an existing building material. Plus it involves managing two attribute lists for this task as opposed to one.

I think he's looking for the path with the least bit of work needed; especially since the surfaces already exist and would only require tweaking of the properties (again, if that existed).

Of course another option would be to create and array of slab blocks (for instance) and simply assign surfaces to them. Then schedule the slabs and show the surface applied and a "custom" field for the description in a schedule. But, probably not any less work than creating and editing Building Materials with surfaces.

The scheduling and properties feature is so powerful, I'd love to see everything "schedule ready," even attributes.
User avatar
By DBS
#300565
Rex, you are spot on with your interpretation. I think of a building material as something like gypsum or brick or plywood and the surfaces to be stuff like paint colors or wood finishes, etc. Creating a new building material every time I want a new paint color is a dumb way of working because the data is directly associated with surfaces, not the building materials. Am I supposed to have a "Red Paint" surface, then create a "Red Painted Gypsum" to pair it with? What if I want to change the color as I'm modeling? Do I need to create a new surface AND a new building material? It's easy to see how this is a recipe for frustration and failure - it's unnecessarily redundant in 2019.

What's baffling to me is that finish schedules are common in the States. A single schedule oftentimes calls out the tiles, paints, finished woods, wall coverings, counters, and so on. With the idea of BIM being so clear, why wouldn't we have this option?
User avatar
By ejrolon
#300566
DBS wrote:
Sat Aug 10, 2019 7:55 pm
…What if I want to change the color as I'm modeling? Do I need to create a new surface AND a new building material? –
Nope, You just create a new Surface and override the one for the Building Material in the object.
User avatar
By DBS
#300567
ejrolon wrote:
Sat Aug 10, 2019 10:59 pm
DBS wrote:
Sat Aug 10, 2019 7:55 pm
…What if I want to change the color as I'm modeling? Do I need to create a new surface AND a new building material? –
Nope, You just create a new Surface and override the one for the Building Material in the object.
If I do a surface override, I can't get data associated with the overridden surface to schedule. Important things like color, finish, supplier, etc (see the attached screenshot as an example). How would one create this schedule using Archicad?
Attachments
Screen Shot 2019-08-10 at 5.38.09 PM.png
Finish Schedule
User avatar
By ejrolon
#300568
Using Properties.
Attachments
Screen Shot 2019-08-10 at 7.16.08 PM.png
Screen Shot 2019-08-10 at 7.16.17 PM.png
Screen Shot 2019-08-10 at 7.17.45 PM.png
User avatar
By DBS
#300569
ejrolon, I really appreciate your time on this thread. The problem is that the properties solution you propose only allows for a single piece of data per surface. I also want to schedule that the BLUE paint is glossy, from manufacturer 'A', and available from supplier 'X' while the RED paint is matte, from manufacturer 'B', and available from supplier 'Z'. That only seems possible by adding data to surfaces and I don't see a way to do that. Nevertheless, you saw the schedule I attached in my previous post. My BIM Holy Grail is to pull that off without having to use Excel. Maybe there is a way I'm not thinking about?