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Sustainable design; Energy Evaluation, EcoDesigner and EcoDesigner STAR

Moderators: ejrolon, Barry Kelly, Karl Ottenstein, LaszloNagy, gkmethy

By princ
#169287
Hello everybody,

I have one big problem with ecodesigner. When it analyizies object it shows that 6 object of shell was found but then it shows only 5 - it never shows basement slab! When i manualy corect the basement slab for the roof it shows corectley but this isnt right.

Please help me

thanks!
User avatar
By Karl Ottenstein
#169293
princ wrote:I have one big problem with ecodesigner. When it analyizies object it shows that 6 object of shell was found but then it shows only 5 - it never shows basement slab! When i manualy corect the basement slab for the roof it shows corectley but this isnt right.
I have not found the automatic analysis to be 100% reliable, but if it says that it found 6 objects, and you only see 5 color-coded in the 3D view, then one of those objects is probably on the interior where you cannot see it.

Assigning additional surfaces, or re-defining surfaces, to be of the desired type is easy in 3D and the changes are saved with your model. So, you don't have to repeat the process unless there are major changes to your model. (NEVER click the button to re-analyze if you have manually reassigned things - then you'll have to re-assign all over again.)

Cheers,
Karl
By princ
#169301
hello

the problem is that it this slab is missing in material section so it is not beeing put into calculation, because of that heating energy is calculated higher than it is.

in 3d model the colors are correct.

Can you please check this file in ED? it is simple 3d box. At the begining it recognies 6 objects but than it is showed only 5. One bottom slab is missing?

Thanks

http://rapidshare.com/files/387791089/test.pln.html

Image
User avatar
By Karl Ottenstein
#169311
It makes no sense to me at all, but the 'official' EcoDesigner methodology ignores ground slab and basement slab components (skins) and uses only the single-material 'Underground insulation' material values.

The manual notes that if the floor slab is over an unheated area, to redefine the slab (Model Review) as a Roof (!) and it will then appear in the building shell element list for material assignment.
Page 15 wrote:A common structural situation in architecture is the case of thermal insulated slabs separating heated and unheated spaces (e.g. floor slab below unheated attics; slabs above arcades, external spaces or unheated basements). To define such structures in EcoDesigner, set the slab (orientation: upward) surface to reflective.
Karl

PS Your file shows build 3000 of AC 13. Use Check for Updates... in the Help menu to download the current hotfix.
By princ
#169321
hello,

thanks for your fast replay,

it is strange to me that no one noticed thig glitch but only me?:) Yes when a signed as a roof the slab shows in the material list but that kind of calculation is not right. i tried update but didnt help.

so sad:(
By Miklos Sved
#169575
Dear Princ and Karl,

What you complain about is actually not a bug but a feature :-)

In case of Basement floors and Floors on ground, EcoDesigner calculates with linear thermal currents. This is the most accurate way to handle the building physics of these structure types because, due to their positions, they act like thermal bridges and not as surfaces loosing heat. The Structures list display data like general composit skin order and area. These info are irrelevant if you calculate linear thermal currents. Therefore Basement floors and Floors on ground do not appear on the Structures tab page, even though they are marked up.
Thermal insulation capacity around the structure perimeter and perimeter length matter in case of flootrs with ground contact. Former is set by the user via the Underground Insulation dialog, the latter is determined by the Automatic model analysis.

Please consult the "Underground Insulation" chapter of the EcoDesigner User Manual and the "Advanced Handling of Underground Insulation" of the Advanced EcoDesigner User Manual for more detailed explanations.

Best regards