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Hardware specific issues - computers, graphics cards, mice/input devices, system benchmarks, protection key issues, etc.

Moderators: Karl Ottenstein, LaszloNagy, ejrolon, Barry Kelly, gkmethy

By archislave
#312528
I wonder what the transition will be for the Mac on Arm. Will it run with Rosetta or only on Intel Macs?
By SenecaDesignLLC
#312614
Considering that the amount of people who will buy the new macs, that use archicad, will likely be quite few, my guess is it will be awhile. I assume they will make it work over time but doubtful it will be a priority.
Just speculation.
By Jacques Toerien
#312626
I have to say I'm less concerned about CPU performance than GPU performance. Not sure how powerful the arm GPU is, and also Apple is deprecating OpenGL, so we'll probably need to see Metal support in future ArchiCAD builds.

As I get older I appreciate silence more, hopefully the ARM based macs will run cooler with less assisted cooling (read fans, especially in the pro models).
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By Karl Ottenstein
#312627
Jacques Toerien wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 8:41 pm
I have to say I'm less concerned about CPU performance than GPU performance. Not sure how powerful the arm GPU is, and also Apple is deprecating OpenGL, so we'll probably need to see Metal support in future ArchiCAD builds.
ARM has nothing to do with the GPU... 3rd party GPU will still be installed... they aren't turning Macs into iPads :-)
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By Jp1138
#312671
Karl Ottenstein wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 9:40 pm

ARM has nothing to do with the GPU... 3rd party GPU will still be installed... they aren't turning Macs into iPads :-)

Yet :roll:
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By Ralph Wessel
#312683
Jp1138 wrote:
Wed Jul 01, 2020 12:49 pm
Karl Ottenstein wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 9:40 pm
ARM has nothing to do with the GPU... 3rd party GPU will still be installed... they aren't turning Macs into iPads :-)
Yet :roll:
As Apple pointed out in the recent WWDC keynote, the design and development of their entire product line (and supporting software) is done on macOS. The desktop macOS isn't just critical to us - Apple would be sunk without it. I'm not sure why the idea that Apple wants to dispose of its desktop operating system keeps being floated (or where it came from), but there's no business case for it. I suspect it's a pipe-dream for people who don't want Apple to exist because even they realise Apple can't exist without macOS.
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By Jp1138
#312687
Ralph Wessel wrote:
Wed Jul 01, 2020 4:08 pm
Jp1138 wrote:
Wed Jul 01, 2020 12:49 pm
Karl Ottenstein wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 9:40 pm
ARM has nothing to do with the GPU... 3rd party GPU will still be installed... they aren't turning Macs into iPads :-)
Yet :roll:
As Apple pointed out in the recent WWDC keynote, the design and development of their entire product line (and supporting software) is done on macOS. The desktop macOS isn't just critical to us - Apple would be sunk without it. I'm not sure why the idea that Apple wants to dispose of its desktop operating system keeps being floated (or where it came from), but there's no business case for it. I suspect it's a pipe-dream for people who don't want Apple to exist because even they realise Apple can't exist without macOS.

It was kind of a joke :mrgreen: I have very little knowledge of Apple products, having never used them, but it´s kinda the image they´re projecting, focusing everything in the mobile and letting the computer slowly slip away. Maybe this ARM thing will be a turning point in that sense, being able to design the whole thing from the ground up should make them more competitive and able to produce more attractive products in "high-end" computers line.
By Jacques Toerien
#312750
Karl Ottenstein wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 9:40 pm
Jacques Toerien wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 8:41 pm
I have to say I'm less concerned about CPU performance than GPU performance. Not sure how powerful the arm GPU is, and also Apple is deprecating OpenGL, so we'll probably need to see Metal support in future ArchiCAD builds.
ARM has nothing to do with the GPU... 3rd party GPU will still be installed... they aren't turning Macs into iPads :-)
Sorry, wrong. :) In Apple's case (and others), Apple Silicon ARM has A LOT to do with GPU. The A12z chip in the Dev mini is a SoC "System on Chip", like the iPad and iPhone arm chips, they handle all the gfx calls and functions. The A12z in the developer mini features 8 gfx cores. The Mac Mini dev unit doesn't ship with a discreet GPU, like the current consumer macs it relies on the gfx cores on the arm CPU to provide GPU functionality.

While the dev unit doesn't have a dediated GPU, it is HIGHLY unlikely Apple will include discreet gfx on a production Mac mini, entry to mid iMac or entry Macbook / Macbook Air model. If you watch the keynote they are running the latest Tomb Raider game on the arm pretty much butter smooth at 1080p....via emulation...no discreet gpu required here for a consumer machine. They are trying to get away from 3rd party suppliers, you'll probably only see discrete GPUs on mid to higher end iMac's and Mac Pros. Why include a discrete GPU when you can get away with more than adequate consumer performance with the on chip GPU? Afterall, less heat, more battery life, less cost and more profit. Win-Win.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_A12Z

Hell, even a raspberry Pi 4 ARM SoC has a built in GPU.
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By Karl Ottenstein
#312788
Jacques Toerien wrote:
Thu Jul 02, 2020 7:09 pm
Sorry, wrong. :) In Apple's case (and others), Apple Silicon ARM has A LOT to do with GPU. ...
We can agree to disagree.... my comment was not precise, but was in terms of ARCHICAD and Twin Motion, neither of which will perform usably or at all with any on-chip GPU known today, but which require powerful, heat-generating discrete GPUs at the moment. With today's (and next year's) technology, computers without discrete GPUs are not usable in a production ARCHICAD workflow.
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By Ralph Wessel
#312790
Jacques Toerien wrote:
Thu Jul 02, 2020 7:09 pm
Apple Silicon ARM has A LOT to do with GPU. The A12z chip in the Dev mini is a SoC "System on Chip", like the iPad and iPhone arm chips, they handle all the gfx calls and functions. The A12z in the developer mini features 8 gfx cores. The Mac Mini dev unit doesn't ship with a discreet GPU, like the current consumer macs it relies on the gfx cores on the arm CPU to provide GPU functionality.
There's no more necessity for an on-chip GPU with Apple's silicon than any other chip. It's an option they might have for conserving power, but that doesn't in any way prevent any other kind of GPU (including external via thunderbolt). Even existing macs support multiple GPU options, including embedded.

Nothing should be based on the mac mini provided to devs - Apple have explicitly stated that they put no effort into its design or construction. It's nothing more than a stop-gap measure that helps devs prepare.