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Interactive Schedule, Listing, Creation of Quantity Take-offs, Bills of Materials.

Moderators: Barry Kelly, Karl Ottenstein, LaszloNagy, ejrolon, gkmethy

By strom
#255659
With ArchiCAD 20 coming out this JUNE 2016 Im really looking forward to this issue starting in 2008 being implemented. That is the ability for LABELS to be Scheduled with custom text available to show up in the schedule. Cant wait it will be so good and surely GS have been working on this excellent new feature. My estimate is that it can save practices 2% labour in creating building documentation....

With labour reduction improvements like that GS would be really enthusiastic in incorporating the recommendations of users. I note that ArchiCAD 20 is marketing performance enhancements to user interface etc. in this release. So obviously they have implemented this issue with dedication to the cause since it has been a issue for almost 8 YEARS. Finally with ArchiCAD 20 we can now schedule labels. I have told every ArchiCAD user I know I looking forward to this new improved ability to schedule labels in ArchiCAD 20. With it being implemented I can be confident that ArchiCAD is now listening to users greatest product enhancement needs and features to make it truly a class leading product.
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By LaszloNagy
#255757
Unfortunately there will be no such new feature in ARCHICAD 20.

I see some technological problems with this feature request. See, both Labels and Schedules report parameters and properties of elements. So a Label is something that reports these data, not an element data is reported about.
In this sense scheduling a Label would be kind of like scheduling a schedule.

I hope this explanation makes sense.
By strom
#255874
laszlonagy wrote:I hope this explanation makes sense.


So what is the alternative within ArchiCAD to making this work so labelling 2D documentation is efficient like it should be? Modelling 400+ skirtings in a building with 100 rooms that you need labelled in internal elevation views of the room?

Having to manage MASSIVE slow building models with rooms that model everything like joinery and skirtings so that your Labels will be correct. This is a sure way to loose any documentation profit that was once a profitable phase of architectural services.

So as a user we are to pay for a lack of intelligent and efficient documentation tools and be satisfied with tweaking our menu interface boxes in ArchiCAD 20.

Is there any sense in that.

A poor return on a significant investment.

Crippled by disfunction. What is GS view on this issue, as I understand it you do not represent them but thanks for the response. All we have is silence on this issue from them for 8 years.

If there is a way to show documentation efficiency then this is a great thread for GS to show it is addressing effective ways to label and text the contents of a building WITHOUT having to MODEL EVERYTHING.
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By ejrolon
#255875
Depends on what you define as "Custom Text".

For "Independent Keynotes" I either use either a Object Label placed in Plan to which I write to a "Custom Filed" or MasterScript Total Keynote.

For most other things I have custom IFC properties (if no actual property matches) that I can schedule and that a label can read that I apply for my objects. So either I have settings for a Wall that include skirting et all or my skirting object has that Property assigned to it. Or I create a Building Material or Surface with the code that I need and schedule that. In any of those cases I just open the Interior Elevation select what I want to label and use "Label Selected Elements" command.

Unless I misunderstand you the flexibility is already there for what you want to achieve

With 20 they are introducing a new set of Properties (Archicad Properties) that eventually should be more flexible than IFC or so they are promising and might just do the trick right now.
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By Karl Ottenstein
#255876
strom wrote:Having to manage MASSIVE slow building models with rooms that model everything like joinery and skirtings so that your Labels will be correct. This is a sure way to loose any documentation profit that was once a profitable phase of architectural services.
...
If there is a way to show documentation efficiency then this is a great thread for GS to show it is addressing effective ways to label and text the contents of a building WITHOUT having to MODEL EVERYTHING.


I may be misunderstanding your need for scheduling labels vs scheduling the building elements (which store the same data as the label)...

But, with AC 20, you have freely created "Element Properties" that store any kind of data you want, organized how you want, with any 3D building element. You can then schedule this data - you can even export the schedule to Excel, have someone else update the data values and then re-import directly into the schedule (which actually modifies the 3D elements reported in the schedule).

So, rather than model every detail as you are rightfully concerned above - you just have to set the values for fields that you define that allow you to extract the data you need.
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By Rob
#255981
I would second to Karl's reply.
Scheduling labels is not really BIM as labels do not really "store" BIM information. They just show whatever information you attached to a BIM element. In other words if there is no BIM element, there is no information. E.g. labels are completely ignored by IFC so you could end up with an utter mess with regards to IFC vs native model information integrity.
By strom
#256103
I understand what you are saying. But what I'm saying would be useful. That's the reason CADIMAGE made their Keynote tool.........

7 seats per year annual subscription $2000+ just so the LABEL LEGEND can become an OBJECT to display all your CODE. Great tool but something that should already be in ArchiCAD anyway.

So it can be done. One way or another. It's either extend ArchiCAD by buying into another add-on or spend time TEXTING LEGENDS to show your codes. Obviously this thread has now become a advertisement for CADIMAGE.

I'm not associated with them in any way. I have now found another deficiency in archicad to focus on that is seriously surprising me. there seems to be no end to issues when you delve deeper into ArchiCAD's features. I'm not anti ArchiCAD. It just should be better than it appears to be in all the marketing and claims of BIM prowess..
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By ejrolon
#256114
You don't need CadImage Keynotes.
I have always created my "label" schedules with existing AC tools.
Also 20's ability of linking an Excel spreadsheet can be more flexible since it can import the data and you can place a PDF in your layout.
And sometimes I cheat and use Change Manager as a keynoting tool.
By strom
#256267
I have always created my "label" schedules with existing AC tools


Saying this is fine if you document in a particular way to suit the tools however in medium sized to large practices you need to document in a particular way.

In your case I would be interested in knowing how you document using existing tools if it solves our problem. How do you automate the scheduling of codes used or labels representing codes you have placed on surfaces? Maybe you use a particular logic condition on a particular parameter. A first step is obviously using the codes to name material. OK I'm there with that. But how do you automate the once only scheduling of each code/material used?
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By ejrolon
#256268
I usually coordinate Labels by reading the information of the object. In 90% of the cases the object has the following info:
• Renovation Status
• CSI Keynote # for finishes or type
• Building Material has Keynote # and Specification

Based on the drawing the Label reads the information that I specify and the schedule reads the info that it needs.
Attached quick sample that reads a Keynote Number from the Object and the Schedule lists the Keynote Number and the Description. Done in AC17.
Attachments
Screen Shot 2016-06-07 at 6.22.08 PM.png